[Bicyclelifestyle]

From what I understand, Ford has improved on their reliability. I’m still not a huge fan, but I do think they’re better than their old reputation.

Overall though, sounds like the Outback might be a good option.

If long-term reliability is a high priority, I’d also consider a rav-4 or Highlander. Toyota products really are the gold standard in that regard.

I didn’t hear you mention gas-mileage, so I’d recommend even looking at a 4Runner. (Full disclosure, I own one.) That’ll easily tow a trailer, get you up any ski hill, and outlive a cockroach.

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I'm gonna throw a +1 on the Rav4. Girlfriend just picked up a new MY20, and the thing is seriously sweet for a no-nonsense small, truck-like SUV. Over 200 naturally aspirated hp and great driving dynamics. The 8 speed transmission makes up for quite a bit and you'll find yourself going way over the speed limit of you aren't careful. So easy and well mannered to drive. Even though the engine seems like a sewing machine compared to the 3.6r and the NVH leaves a bit to be desired, I think she made the perfect choice.

 

[Micron]

Rav4 admirers - there was a vid posted in the forum where the 'deer avoidance' test was done. Rav failed miserably, and IIRC, in another vid it hit the big balloon car in the collision braking tests. I'll leave it to y'all to find those vids. I looked at Rav 4 before buying my OB. Rav is sorely lacking in interior materials quality and space, but as long as you're happy with black interior, maybe it will be too dark inside to notice.

 

[Bicyclelifestyle]

Rav4 admirers - there was a vid posted in the forum where the 'deer avoidance' test was done. Rav failed miserably, and IIRC, in another vid it hit the big balloon car in the collision braking tests. I'll leave it to y'all to find those vids. I looked at Rav 4 before buying my OB. Rav is sorely lacking in interior materials quality and space, but as long as you're happy with black interior, maybe it will be too dark inside to notice.

To be fair... I feel like most drivers know that if a deer jumps out in the road in front of you, you just gotta hit it. A moose or elk on the other hand... Your fate is not in your hands. Even the sporty little Fiesta ST has a rollover risk.
After using both cars for week long camping with a child and dog, I can say on excellent authority that the Rav4 beats the Outback on useable* interior room. It's almost not even a competition.

 

[Micron]

Not a competition? I dunno. Maybe you were in a smaller OB? You lose a bit of headroom once the OB moon roof enters the picture (this OB the Convenience trim) but I do agree, it's not really a competition if you prefer rear headroom and cargo volume with the seats up.

RAV4
Front Headroom mm (in.)	992 (39.0)
Rear Headroom mm (in.)	1015 (40.0)
Front Legroom mm (in.)	1040 (40.9)
Rear Legroom mm (in.)	960 (37.8)
Cargo Capacity Behind 2nd Seat-Max. Cap. L (cu.Ft.)	1059 (37.4)
Cargo Capacity Behind Front Seats-Max. Cap. L (cu. Ft)	1977 (69.8)
OB
Headroom: Front (mm)	1019
Headroom: Rear (mm)	992
Legroom: Front (mm)	1087
Legroom: Rear (mm)	1004
Cargo volume (seats up) (L)	920
Cargo volume (seats folded flat) (L)	2144

 

[Bicyclelifestyle]

Could fit a lot more in the '90 740 turbo wagon, too for the same reasons. Straighter sides, rear gate and a larger hatch opening make a very big difference.

 

[z28dug]

I think when a couple inches of cargo space or leg/head room becomes an issue, it is time to rule out the OB/Rav4 and start looking at the Highlander/Ascent.

 

[mainemantom]

I am a loyal Ford person for the past 46 years. The Subaru came into the picture when I moved to Maine. I wanted the best AWD durable vehicle available without breaking the bank. All my Ford, Lincoln and Mercury vehicles are put to bed for the winter. I looked at the Escape as a choice and found them to be flimsy. Not worthy of the challenge of getting up my driveway. I have had them as rental vehicles (short term) I hated each one of them. Uncomfortable, cramped, under powered, cheap. The last one was given to me as a rental until my Explorer was ready the next morning. How I hated that vehicle ! Now If you were to compare the Explorer to the Subaru Outback, I would seriously have to vote for the Explorer. Every one of those I have had, I have loved. I want another as a second winter vehicle. The Subaru Outback still is an excellent winter choice far superior to many AWD vehicles on the market at the price point it is at.

 

[YeuEmMaiMai]

the new explorer is nowhere near the beast that the old one was... absolutely NO to the turbo 4

 

[jakemccoy]

the new explorer is nowhere near the beast that the old one was... absolutely NO to the turbo 4

You are going to have a rough time adjusting to the new engines of the future.

 

[z28dug]

You are going to have a rough time adjusting to the new engines of the future.

We will all be riding around in big RC cars. Get in, tell the cloud your destination and software written by the same guys writing head unit software will drive you away......what could go wrong?

 

[MoneyPit]

Fords warranty costs have skyrocketed as they have been paying more out on warranty claims to the tune of 2billion dollars more than even GM. This should tell you everything you need to know about buying a new Ford product.

If the hard numbers don’t do it for you how about the focus transmission scandal? They knew they had a crap product and they did the math on the warranty claims versus redesigning the transmission. Guess which one they picked. They recently settled.


sources:

Redirect Notice

Ford employees say Fiesta, Focus transsmission problems were well known

Former or current Ford employees say Fiesta and Focus dual-clutch transmission problems were widely known, yet Ford discouraged workers from speaking out.

www.google.com

 

[z28dug]

Your Fiesta link is over a year old. Issues with dual-clutch Fiesta transmission have been known for years. So bad that dual-clutch Fiestas were on the very short list of vehicles that Car-Max would not buy.

 

[SilverOnyx]

I test drove the 2019 OB and the missus and I both really liked it. We're getting it (subject to financing)

You made the right choice! Hope you return to let us know it's in your garage!

 

[YeuEmMaiMai]

You are going to have a rough time adjusting to the new engines of the future.

no not really, i only said no to turbo engines. given the choice between N/A and turbo I will choice N/A..

 

[Tom Briglia]

Looking for a good (non-commuting) city car with some pep that also works well for many trips up the local ski hill in the winter and long camping trips in the summer, also with the option to tow a small trailer (I'm not asking for much eh?). It's just the wife and I so don't need/want anything big - so as far as I can tell there are not many other options. (She doesn't like the huge '20 OB infotainment screen). What's better value, a brand new '20 Ford Escape Titanium with all the goodies or a '19 OB 3.6R Touring that costs $4600USD less? I've never owned a Fix Or Repair Daily and I'm concerned about long-term reliability (hope to keep the car for many years, just like my 2002 Mazda Protege5). I think the Ford is a better fit in terms of size, power and tech but does not seem to be rated very highly. I want more clearance and towing power than a Mazda CX-5 offers.

Thanks!

Outback safer and better car all the away around!!

 

[BioOBWinWA]

My 2 cents:

We had a 2017 Escape 2.0 Ecoboost AWD that we leased and returned in February. The Escape you want is the 2.0 Ecoboost, the other engines are underpowered for towing. We towed a Uhaul trailer from Cleveland to Austin shortly after leasing the car, then from Austin to Portland, then Portland to New Orleans (we moved 3 times in 3 years). The Escape towed a fully loaded 1000 lb trailer with ease. We got up to 27 mpg on the highway unloaded. The last move from Portland to New Orleans was through lots of snow and mountain passes...the Escape never flinched. We didn't even change the tires from the all-seasons that came with the car. We did experience a few defects that needed addressing, including a leaking roof from a misaligned roof rack gasket and a detached a/c drain line...but overall I really liked the car. We looked at the 2020 Escape before buying our 2017 OB 3.6R, but my wife couldn't get over how cheap it looked compared to the previous generation.

 

[Tom Briglia]

My 2 cents:

We had a 2017 Escape 2.0 Ecoboost AWD that we leased and returned in February. The Escape you want is the 2.0 Ecoboost, the other engines are underpowered for towing. We towed a Uhaul trailer from Cleveland to Austin shortly after leasing the car, then from Austin to Portland, then Portland to New Orleans (we moved 3 times in 3 years). The Escape towed a fully loaded 1000 lb trailer with ease. We got up to 27 mpg on the highway unloaded. The last move from Portland to New Orleans was through lots of snow and mountain passes...the Escape never flinched. We didn't even change the tires from the all-seasons that came with the car. We did experience a few defects that needed addressing, including a leaking roof from a misaligned roof rack gasket and a detached a/c drain line...but overall I really liked the car. We looked at the 2020 Escape before buying our 2017 OB 3.6R, but my wife couldn't get over how cheap it looked compared to the previous generation.

My 2017 OB 3.6 Touring is a much better car than my 2020 OB Onyx XT gas mileage is very good and the engine is so much quicker

 

[DanielAcosta]

Based on long personal experience with Ford, I would only buy one if I was planning on keeping it a short time. For long term use, they don't seem to be as reliable or as easy to work on as other brands. I think it was @cardoc who had a long post about all the difficulties working on Fords, but it may have been somebody else. The last straw for me was when the dealer service manager who oversaw the maintenance on my Ford for years explained that their mainstream 3.8V6 always needed head gaskets just after the powertrain warranty expired so Ford wasn't doing anything to improve the design. I paid that bill and haven't bought a Ford since. Most recently my friend's F-150 ecoboost needed new turbos around 120K miles, which is apparently typical for those according to his dealer service manager. We can all cite good and bad examples for many manufacturers: Honda transmissions in the early 2000's, Subaru head gaskets and cvts in the not too distant past, Toyota oil leaks on their 3.5V6, transmission issues with the GM 8-speed, and so on. I had a Subaru NA and turbo back in the 80's, they were both fine, but back then I didn't keep cars more than 50-70K miles. After 30+ years of other brands I thought I'd try Subaru again because Honda's reliability seems to be going down, Toyota's is neutral but pricey to buy, and Subaru's reliability seems to be going up. Time will tell.

 

[GeoffD]

The mpg is amazing. Hardly anybody is thinking about towing on a car like this. And “less roomy” is usually coupled with easier to zip around, easier to park, etc.

I tow with mine all the time. A 5x8 enclosed U Haul cargo trailer is almost 1,000 pounds. With an Escape, the only cargo I could load in it is ping pong balls. A 6x12 utility trailer is 1,730 pounds. I rent those to haul chopped up tree branches to the town brush dump every time a tree comes down. Gravel for the driveway? Topsoil? Not possible. Plus, I own a boat.

Your driving routine sounds similar to l mine. I put all weather Nokian WRG3 Asymmetric tires on my Outback. I am in snow country about 20 days per year, and the tires are on their 4th winter. The tires handle ice and snow just fine. I don’t even pack chains. Chain patrol waves me through and is usually irritated if I slow down at the check point. Winter specific tires are overkill and an unnecessary hassle for people who do not live in snow country. This is not 1980 anymore. In the year 2020, some tire makers have done an excellent job with all-weather tires that actually work well.

So you don't live somewhere that gets black ice. I just replaced my Nokian R2 with R3 after five seasons. The black ice performance is far better than a WRG3 and that's the condition where I'm most likely to crash my car.

 

[ryank]

Since you say you're taking it to the local ski hill, you want better winter tires than the stock Bridgestones. That's going to degrade the handling, not improve it. I run 225/65R17 Nokians on my 2015 3.6R as my winter tire and 18" Michelins on the OEM wheels in the summer.

Oh my gosh I can’t even express how much I despise the stock duellers. Some variant of them have come on three cars I’ve bought now. The last set I took off within 75 miles of owning the car.

There are tons of great winter options these days. Basically every tire manufacturer now makes a competitive winter tire. A few companies are even making “all weather” tires that are basically like beginner-level snow tires you can leave on all year. (Vredstein, Goodyear, Michelin, etc) That’d be a good option if you aren’t ready to commit to a dedicated winter set. Although you’ll probably like them so much you’ll upgrade soon anyway...


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