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2.5l Engine changes in Gen 4 Outback?

2.5K views 11 replies 6 participants last post by  waryoldguy  
#1 ·
My daughter's 2012 Outback overheated and trashed the head/headgasket. Dealer wanted ridiculous amount to repair so I am looking at replacement engines. Otherwise the car is sound. Found reasonable engine with 5 year warranty, but it is listed as: FITS SUBARU 2.5L (Non-Turbo) VEHICLES (1999 - 2010).

Is there any difference in the 2.5L 4 during the gen 4 run or should this fit the 2012. From information I have found, it should fit, but before I take remanufacturer's assurance, I wanted to check here.
 
#2 ·
1999-2005 non-avls engines are compatible with 1999-2005 only.

2006-2009 AVLS engines only for these years, but the block can be used with 99-05 if needed.

2010-12 are specific blocks because of a design change for the drivetrain mounts. You have to have an engine for 2010-2012.

2013 up is FB DOHC and only work in 13 up.

The engine has to have the bracket under the crank pulley for the front brace and mount.

Circled in red.

Image


Engines on eBay that will fit your 2012:


 
#5 ·
1999-2005 non-avls engines are compatible with 1999-2005 only.

2006-2009 AVLS engines only for these years, but the block can be used with 99-05 if needed.

2010-12 are specific blocks because of a design change for the drivetrain mounts. You have to have an engine for 2010-2012.

2013 up is FB DOHC and only work in 13 up.

The engine has to have the bracket under the crank pulley for the front brace and mount.

Circled in red.

[removed photo since it can be viewed above]

Engines on eBay that will fit your 2012:


Not sure I want to trust an engine on eBay, though the prices are lower than what I am seeing from Jasper Engines, which is the remanufacturer I am looking at. I like the idea of a warranty on the engine for more than a year. I would feel a bit worried about having my daughter driving with an engine I do not trust, and would be uncomfortable selling it to anyone else.

Here is a photo of the engine from their website. It does not appear to have the correct mounting bracket. That bracket looks to be part of the block casting in your photo. Again, they state it FITS SUBARU 2.5L (Non-Turbo) VEHICLES (1999 - 2010). Based on your response it would be more correct to say it fits vehicles 2006-2009 and could be used in a 1999-2005.
Image


I find it curious that in a single generation of vehicle, and the Gen 4 Outbacks ran from 2009-2014, Subaru chose to change the engine mounting procedure twice, once for 2010-2012 and again for 2013-2014. It would seem from a manufacturing standpoint that is the sort of thing one would want to keep consistent for a production run.
 
#6 ·
2006 started the AVLS engines. More torque and better economy by changing the valve lift.

2010 with the new body style they incorporated the new drivetrain mounts to attempt to reduce vibration.

They quit that and went back to lower engine mounts afterward.

The bracket is part of the upper oil pan assembly. The block a little different also to incorporate the upper pan change.

You have to understand, things around this time were changing. Toyota took over GM's shares and in a deal engine changes were made in the middle of the generational build, but made to accommodate most of the drive line. EPA standards were changing and upcoming "demands" meant new designs.

I've bought a lot of engines and transmissions for my cars and customers' off eBay. What you have to look for is longevity of the business, a high number in the thousands for feedback totals and higher than 98% positive. Warranty will vary. A lot of salvage yards, rebuilds and dealerships sell on eBay.

Those I posted are JDM imports with less than 60k miles. New plugs, wires, thermostat, oil/filter and coolant and run it. Timing belt kit would be a good idea just based on age.

Jasper has their info incorrect. Jasper doesn't build engines very much any more. They outsource from engine builders and act as a middle man on some. If you want rebuilt, look at Sunwest. They do nothing but Japanese.

 
#7 ·
Thank you so much for this information.

This has been something of a disaster, as it overheated on a drive to a new job for her in Maryland, mileage was just over 93k. The car is at a dealership, and has been for a few weeks, while we have been trying to sort it out from the Philly suburbs. We have loaned her a car in the meantime. I am ordering the engine for delivery to the dealership, to avoid the markup...I get that with the labor, but the dealership has been good working with us.

I believe that the oil pan assembly will be transferred from the existing engine, so that should take care of the bracket, though the block changes so it will fit are obviously, important. Sunwest listed the 2010-12 engines separately which gives me a better feeling. I will phone them tomorrow for lead times, shipping, et cetera. Their price is better, core charge is higher, and their warranty a little shorter, but I imagine it will be a wash in the end.

As I said, I would feel better using a remanufactured engine rather than used. I will make sure the break in is done correctly before delivering it back to my daughter.

This is why I am on these forums...for every car we own.
 
#8 ·
I think you have misunderstood.

My understanding is as follows.

Subaru made different 2.5 engine models during the 2010 to 2012 period.

The 2.5 engine in the Outback during that period is unique to the Outback.

The front mounting bracket is attached to the “upper oil pan” NOT the lower oil pan that will be removed from the old engine.

You need to ensure that the engine supplier is supplying an engine tor an Outback (not and Impreza or Forester as these do not have the required front engine mount).

Seagrass
 
#11 ·
I have purchased a few engines from Wideway as cardoc posted above along with several from sunshine state and Japanstar. I just completed an EJ from Japanstar this week. In my experience, a JDM engine is low miles and UNMOLESTED. I have had terrible luck with “remanufactured” engines. Most of the time there are leaks and inferior parts. I have only ever had one JDM engine have major mechanical problems after install and Wideway made it right and offered to replace it if I was willing to wait for it.

Also, if you ignore our advice and go reman, check for a Gates timing belt. The oem engine I pulled from the forester on my lift had a sub 10k mile Gates belt on it and it snapped while I was spinning the engine for zero position.

Lastly, the upper oil pan will not be easy to swap over to the new engine, if chosen.
 
#12 ·
I have purchased a few engines from Wideway as cardoc posted above along with several from sunshine state and Japanstar. I just completed an EJ from Japanstar this week. In my experience, a JDM engine is low miles and UNMOLESTED. I have had terrible luck with “remanufactured” engines. Most of the time there are leaks and inferior parts. I have only ever had one JDM engine have major mechanical problems after install and Wideway made it right and offered to replace it if I was willing to wait for it.

Also, if you ignore our advice and go reman, check for a Gates timing belt. The oem engine I pulled from the forester on my lift had a sub 10k mile Gates belt on it and it snapped while I was spinning the engine for zero position.

Lastly, the upper oil pan will not be easy to swap over to the new engine, if chosen.
Well, you have given me something to think about. I was thinking in terms of reman'ed engines being more reliable over the long term, based on the warranty. Yet from two mechanics who have done the job, I am hearing that that is not the case. The cost is certainly more palatable to go with a JDM engine.

I will contact Wideway. If nothing else, the lead time will probably be better.