[N4HHE]

Oil change involves removing a Drain Plug simple enough. I do my own oil changes do not have a flutey. Never heard of a flutey valve until I bought a Subaru can they be used on Chevy’s???

Flutey? Have no idea. Google it yourself.

My first Fumoto was on a Ford Powerstroke Diesel. 15 quart crankcase. The plug was a huge M14-1.25. Large volume of oil gushed out when plug from center of pan was removed. Easy to get burned. Easy to make big mess. The pan was at least 16” off the ground so oil splashed when it hit drain pan making more mess.

No matter the engine there us always a matter of getting the drain plug out of the way before the rush of oil hits it, you, and your tools.

The Fumoto valve allowed me to stand an empty gallon oil jug under the engine with a short length of vinyl hose. Drain direct for a gallon then turn it off to swap jugs, repeat until drained. Took longer to drain but less time to set up, drain, then clean up.

Replaced the Ford with a Mercedes diesel SUV. German pigheadedness placed a large plastic panel under the engine without access port for oil drain. 8-12 bolts to remove. Then the crankcase was covered in insulation perfect for wicking the last bit of oil dripping from drain. M-B mechanic told me they just spray it with carb cleaner and dry off with paper towels. Or use an oil extractor because the dipstick tube was routed all the way to the bottom expressly for that purpose. I bought an oil extractor to suck oil out the dipstick tube.

 

[uniquewon]

I'm pretty sure that the Fomoto Valve is an approved part for Subaru. My dealer put mine in without a blink of an eye. I also would bet that the oil pan is steel, not aluminum.

JMTC

 

[uniquewon]

There is no way any dealer would approve of installing that valve for oil draining. There is a reason every manufacturer uses a bolt release the oil from the oil pan. Its simple , fool-proof, and has virtually a zero failure rate. There is no point to the Fumoto valve. You still gotta get under the car, you still need a catch can, you still need to dispose of the old oil. The only thing it does do is introduce risk with almost zero reward. Not a good deal.

Sorry, the dealer was right. If I was the dealer, I would not have installed it at all.

Wow, the dealer WAS WRONG - many many oil pans have had thread damage from oil plugs going in and out all the time and getting cross threaded here and there. The Fomoto Valve cures all the problems, it does not introduce any.

JMTC

 

[Dantrax]

I went in to my local Subaru dealer for an oil change and asked them to install the Fumoto F108N valve I brought with me. They told me their technician advised against it because the aluminum oil pan and Fumoto brass valve may create warranty issues. I asked them to go ahead with the install. I haven't read anywhere in this forum of any outright warranty issues using a Fumoto valve on a Subaru.

So, I was creating a spreadsheet with my maintenance records, and was going through the invoice for when I had the Fumoto valve installed and noticed in the labor notes, it states "Installed new valve as per customer request. No applied warranty for failure of parts or oil pan." So if there is failure in the oil pan for any reason Subaru can attribute it to the installation of the Fumoto valve?

They are not giving you any warranty on the Fumoto valve & they are being "cute" by including your oil pan as well. There's no way that the Fumoto valve once installed correctly will damage your oil pan, unless it is knocked off by something you run over. Even then it may just break the valve off & not damage the steel threads of the oil pan. Don't worry be happy you don't have to worry about a noob wrench putting the plug back in with an impact drill & stripping out your oil pan threads anymore. No fun it happened to me. I made it 1/2 mile away from the garage before all the warning lights came on & I could see an oil slick in my rear view mirror. And remember to check the oil level before you start your car whenever you have anyone else change your oil. Just my 2 cents worth from things I learned to do the hard way.

 

[sbarner]

NH44E made some great points about having hot oil running down your arm and splashing up from the drain pan. I rarely find that after pulling the plug that I'm not also searching for a rag. I get why people want to use one of these valves, even if I don't. Subaru owners should instead be worried about their steel pans rusting through. Up here in the land of road salt, I noticed leaking through rust on the oil pan of the 2005 2.5 just a few years after I bought it, new. I was surprised, as I had thought it was just surface rust, especially since one would think that the plastic diaper would have kept the road salt away. I thought "No problem, I'll just replace the oil pan," but then I realized that the engine would need to be pulled to get to all the bolts. Instead, after draining the oil on the next change, I removed the rust, coated it with JB-Weld, repainted it, and it stayed that way without another leak for over 100K miles when I sold the car.

I took the car into the local dealer once for an oil change, and that was the free one, shortly after the car's purchase. When I went to do the next change myself, I had to use a 1/2" breaker bar to get the plug loose. I was once a professional mechanic myself, and I know that it's the new guys who get the routine jobs like oil changes, but that's no excuse for screwing up such a simple task. I have only taken Subies to the dealer a few times since then, typically for warranty or recall work, as well as a difficult to diagnose illuminated MIL, and it seems that every visit was a disaster in terms of my satisfaction. They're nothing but a polite bunch of overpriced clowns. I'd rather do the work myself and know that it's done right. The fact that I can save a huge amount of money in the process just sweetens the deal.

 

[BHopkins]

There is no way any dealer would approve of installing that valve for oil draining. There is a reason every manufacturer uses a bolt release the oil from the oil pan. Its simple , fool-proof, and has virtually a zero failure rate. There is no point to the Fumoto valve. You still gotta get under the car, you still need a catch can, you still need to dispose of the old oil. The only thing it does do is introduce risk with almost zero reward. Not a good deal.

Sorry, the dealer was right. If I was the dealer, I would not have installed it at all.

Too funny. I'm reminded when in the mid '60's, our church considered installing air conditioning. My 80 something grandfather stood up and said there was no purpose to spend the money on air conditioning. I sure am glad that cooler heads prevailed.

It's fair to say that you are entitled to feel that there is no point for a Fumoto valve . . . for you. But as a blanket statement, you are totally wrong. By your logic, none of us should ever install any aftermarket accessory on our cars, because, after all, the manufacturer had to have "a reason" for not including it. Yea. It's called profit and price point.

Sorry, but I'm somewhat exhausted from explaining to those who have never used an oil pan drain valve, of all the convenience and advantages. But here it goes, one more time. With my Fumoto valve, I've:

* Never had hot, dirty motor oil drip down my hand and arm.
* Never dropped a drain plug in the oil drain pan.
* Never had to fish an oil drain plug out of the bottom of an oil drain pan.
* Never had to clean the dirty oil off the oil drain plug after it got dropped in the bottom of the oil drain pan.
* Never had to clean up the magnet or tool, or perhaps the hand, that was used to fish the oil drain plug out of the hot, dirty oil.
* Never thought once about buying some tool designed to help remove the oil drain plug without dropping it in the oil drain pan. (Yea, they actually make them. Must be a real problem for a lot of people. But there is no tool to keep a Fumoto oil drain valve from falling into the bottom of the oil drain pan. :grin2
* Never had the oil drain plug o-ring or gasket start leaking, to where I have oil streaks down the bottom of the oil pan.
* Never had to replace an oil drain plug o-ring or gasket, to keep oil leaks from happening.
* Never worry about a cross threaded oil drain plug. (Yea, like that never happens. Google that one on the internet.)
* Never had to buy an insert kit to install a new drain plug in a cross threaded oil pan. (There is another one that you can Google to see how frequent it happens.)
* Never had to replace an oil drain plug because it starts wearing out. Hex head has seen it's better days.
* Never had to worry about the oil stream overshooting the oil drain pan, or splattering out of the oil drain pan.
* Never have to use an oil drain pan. I just drain right into an empty oil jug.
* Have always been able to stop the flow mid drain, so I can collect an oil sample for analysis, then restart the flow. Without nary a single drop of oil spilled.
* Never needed to double check what the torque value is for a drain plug.
* Always able to do an oil change without getting out any tools. No wrench. No oil drain pan. No funnel to transfer the dirty motor oil from the drain pan to a container, so it can be taken to the recycle location. Oh, I take that back. I still use a funnel to pour the new motor oil into the engine.
* Rarely even use gloves any longer, when changing motor oil, because it is so mess free.
* Often hear of Fumoto drain valve users actually keeping the valve when they sell a car, so they can install it on their next car. Or making the purchase of a new valve whenever they buy a new car. (And they do that because they found no point to a Fumoto valve when they had one of the car they sold. Yes, that's sarcasm in case you weren't sure. :wink2

If you have never had any of these inconveniences happen to you when you change motor oil, or find none of them to be an inconvenience and just love those experiences, then just keep doing what you are doing. But don't be so close minded as to think that just because you don't want to use one, that there is no purpose for them.

BTW, the first time I heard of a Fumoto oil drain valve is when my Subaru dealership salesman made a point of telling me that they are a Subaru approved aftermarket accessory. I guess Subaru doesn't see a purpose to them either. (Yep, more sarcasm.)

 

[253714]

BHopkins, you have an incredible imagination.


cross threading drain plug? Possibly if you try and install it after drinking a 6 pack of cheap beer.
replace an oil drain plug because it starts wearing out? You would have to use a 16 point socket and purposely put it on and angle over and over again to come close to wearing it out.

BHopkins,

you still need to get under the car right?
you still need a drain pan right?
you still need to dispose of the old oil right--by transferring it to another container.
and dont tell me or anyone on this forum that you can do all this without getting any oil on your hands.

This is not an aftermarket accessory like car mats are.. I hope the difference is clear to everyone.
The valve introduces risk that you did not have before, the car floor mats do not.


When Subaru installs it from the factory and includes it in the warranty against failure and damage to the engine. I will be the first in line to get it.


Until then, it takes me 15 minutes to change the oil from start to finish. I slide an thin sheet of wood paneling under the car. Few drops fall on the paneling, and few drops go on my hands.
Guys, this is acceptable!!! You are not changing the oil while wearing a friggin suit!
Never encountered any of the absolute nonsense that BHopkins describes above.


How can you trust a $15 item to protect your 30-40,000 dollar investment?

And more important, why doesn't the manufacture offer it as an option?

 

[z28dug]

And more important, why doesn't the manufacture offer it as an option?

Because they do fail and they can leak.

Having once been part owner of a shop I have probably done a 1000 oil changes in my life. Never once cross threaded a drain plug. Never had a drain plug fail.

Of course I guess it could be useful for those not bright enough to tell the difference between the oil drain plug and the CVT drain plug.

 

[ammcinnis]

cross threading drain plug?

Yep. I still have a 1980s GM car in my stable. I don't know whether it's the threads in the oil pan or the plug itself, but it requires forethought and a rather delicate touch to avoid cross-threading ... every time. An inexperienced oil-change jockey with power tools would almost guarantee a cross-threaded drain plug ... every time. I used to have a 1990s Dodge Caravan that was almost as bad.

... dont tell me or anyone on this forum that you can do all this without getting any oil on your hands.

These days I can and do, every oil change, on our 2015 Legacy 2.5 and 2016 Outback 2.5. Snap a drain hose onto the valve, open the valve, drain directly into the disposal container, close the valve, and remove the hose. Do I still keep a red shop rag handy? Of course, but I seldom need to use it anymore.

The valve introduces risk that you did not have before ...

True, but it reduces other risks (e.g. cross-threading) while adding benefits of its own. It's worth noting that third-party valves like the Fumoto are formally approved by both engine manufacturers and the FAA for aircraft use, where an engine failure usually involves a more serious outcome than just pulling off the side of the road.

Until then, it takes me 15 minutes to change the oil from start to finish. I slide an thin sheet of wood paneling under the car. Few drops fall on the paneling, and few drops go on my hands.
Guys, this is acceptable!!!

Knock yourself out! I don't think anyone is suggesting that you should change the way you do things. I changed oil on numerous vehicles the same way for ~50 years, but I'm always open to better ideas ... and for me the Fumoto valve is a better idea.

... why doesn't the manufacture offer it as an option?

In a manufacturing environment where parts prices are tracked to the tenth of a cent: cost. These days, vehicles are designed to optimize manufacturing efficiency, not maintainability. Besides, "We've always done it this way."

 

[z28dug]

Knock yourself out! I don't think anyone is suggesting that you should change the way you do things. I changed oil on numerous vehicles the same way for ~50 years, but I'm always open to better ideas ... .

Same here, after doing it for 50 years my better idea is to let the dealer do it. No fuss, no muss, in and out in under 30 minutes.

 

[ammcinnis]

... after doing it for 50 years my better idea is to let the dealer do it.

That's certainly a rational choice. Whenever the time comes that I can no longer do it myself, I will probably choose to do the same.

 

[N4HHE]

cross threading drain plug? Possibly if you try and install it after drinking a 6 pack of cheap beer.
replace an oil drain plug because it starts wearing out? You would have to use a 16 point socket and purposely put it on and angle over and over again to come close to wearing it out.

Yes, there are people who change oil who are incredibly incompetent. I have experienced two friends with stripped threads on oil drain pan. Of course nobody knows how that ever could have happened!

Is not unusual to find a quickie oil change place used an adjustable wrench to round the head of the drain bolt. Or worse yet: vise grips on the bolt.

you still need to get under the car right?
you still need a drain pan right?

Not with an extractor pulling the oil out by the dipstick tube.

you still need to dispose of the old oil right--by transferring it to another container.

Fumoto makes it easy to drain directly into the container I ultimately leave beside the street for scavengers to collect. Once Upon A Time our Benevolent Cradle To Grave Government imposed "recycling" upon us mere sheeple. Then decided glass was too dangerous for them to handle, it might break and cut someone! And not long after silently decided used motor oil was too much trouble when they could pass a law/regulation requiring all who sell motor oil must also receive used motor oil and dispose in a manor approved by government. Rather than carry to Walmart I find scavengers eventually "steal" my used motor oil left at end of driveway.

and dont tell me or anyone on this forum that you can do all this without getting any oil on your hands.

When I do, I don't. I can also pour a cup of coffee without spilling. Is no more difficult.

This is not an aftermarket accessory like car mats are.. I hope the difference is clear to everyone.
The valve introduces risk that you did not have before, the car floor mats do not.

Toyota would like to hire you as an expert witness to explain how floor mats could not possibly have slipped and held the accelerator pedal depressed.

How can you trust a $15 item to protect your 30-40,000 dollar investment?

Where can I get a Fumoto for $15? Mine was closer to $30 with shipping.

Subaru engines do not cost $30k. I used a Fumoto on a $20k Powerstroke Diesel engine without worry. Worried more about the o-ring on oil filter cap.

 

[Danver]

I agree that some folks also find it difficult to use a drain plug.....some folks shouldn't be allowed to touch a wrench.

Heck, there are enough people who seem to find it difficult to check the oil with a dipstick. And don't forget about the ones who run out of gas because looking at the gas gauge is so much harder than looking at the MTE reading.

 

[Danver]

How can you trust a $15 item to protect your 30-40,000 dollar investment?

What's an OEM drain plug cost, about $3? How can you trust a $3 item to protect your 30-40,000 investment?

 

[Rub]

For those that eschew using the Fumoto I could better take your dislike if you actually used one, experienced it and then rejected the concept or design.

It's like saying you don't like sushi, won't try it and those possess a lazy mind for not cooking the fish in the way you think it should be done.

Did I get that right?

If we go with relative cost to the car dying or going kaboom on the road, take an itsy bitsy hose clamp. Less than $2 and yet, if it fails it's no bueno but no one frets over a hose clamp because the failure rate is zero and I challenge anyone who doesn't like the Fumoto or any other similar device to post a first person account of the failure and circumstances to best make your point.

Not a good friend, or friend of a friend or my buddy's girlfriend's hunting partner but a real story with facts, pics or something solid that is evidence. Not a story where the car was beat to snot, in a crash or something similar but instead a story where the Fumoto failed without outside interference or influences. There are countess stories where drainplugs aren't put back in by dealers, indie shops or Iffy Lube type of places so one's patron saint of infallability - the factory drain plug - isn't pefect but I'd venture to say that a Fumoto properly installed the first time does not have similar problems for as long as you own the car.

On my OB with the plastic shield the Fumoto does not extend below that and for something to get up in the drainplug area would have to be something extraordinary that my guesstimate is that the front and underside of the car are irreparably damaged and any Fumoto failure is secondary to that and not a primary failure.

Give me something toothy to chew on and not a styrofoam peanut and we can talk.

 

[Danver]

It's like saying you don't like sushi, won't try it and those possess a lazy mind for not cooking the fish in the way you think it should be done.

Did I get that right?

Given a choice when it comes to sushi, I think I would prefer to eat a Fumoto valve.

 

[Rub]

Given a choice when it comes to sushi, I think I would prefer to eat a Fumoto valve.

Make sure you eat the one with the nipple.

 

[BHopkins]

BHopkins, you have an incredible imagination.


cross threading drain plug? Possibly if you try and install it after drinking a 6 pack of cheap beer.

You really aren't familiar with how common this is? I've never done it. And I tend to agree that it shouldn't happen. But it does. A lot. I challenged you to Google oil drain plug repair kits. Apparently you didn't? Lisle offers a kit. Dorman offers a couple different options. Summit Racing carries one offered by B&M. NAPA has an oil drain repair kit. Mac tools offers a very nice kit for the professional. And many others. There are all kinds of Youtube videos that address repairing a cross threaded oil drain plug.

replace an oil drain plug because it starts wearing out? You would have to use a 16 point socket and purposely put it on and angle over and over again to come close to wearing it out.

Once again, you need to Google this. Every automotive parts house in this country must offer replacement oil drain plugs. If you have visited many automotive maintenance forums like this one, you must have seen references to others who have commented about having to get a new oil drain plug.

BHopkins,

you still need to get under the car right?

Yes. I never implied that a Fumoto oil drain valve makes it possible to change the oil while sipping a lemonade on the porch swing.

you still need a drain pan right?

No. I attach a drain hose to the Fumoto valve. The other end of the drain hose goes right into an empty oil jug. No need for a oil drain pan. No cleaning an oil drain pan afterwards.

you still need to dispose of the old oil right--by transferring it to another container.

Yes . . . and no. Yes, I still have to dispose of the used oil. But since the Fumoto valve allows me to drain right into a jug, I do not need to transfer the oil to another container.

and dont tell me or anyone on this forum that you can do all this without getting any oil on your hands.

Yes, I can. And until you have actually tried a Fumoto valve, please, don't tell me that I can't. Sure, occasionally I'll get a little oil on my hands from cleaning the drain hose. But it is nothing compared to what drips down my hand when pulling the plug from my other car.

This is not an aftermarket accessory like car mats are.. I hope the difference is clear to everyone.
The valve introduces risk that you did not have before, the car floor mats do not.

I'll leave this one alone, since H4HHE has already covered it so well.

How can you trust a $15 item to protect your 30-40,000 dollar investment?

Gee, I don't know. Perhaps I just blindly follow the example of the big boys. Perhaps you weren't aware that the practice of using a valve to drain used motor oil started in industry. They are very commonly installed on Caterpillar. John Deere. Cummins. Detroit Diesel. They are used on Kubota, Volvo trucks, Mercedes heavy duty vehicles.

And more important, why doesn't the manufacture offer it as an option?

I guess we could ask that same question about a lot of aftermarket accessories.

Many that are serious about engine lubrication install bypass oil filter systems. Except for industrial engines, this is not offered from the factory.
Skid plates are a very popular aftermarket accessory for Outbacks and Foresters. Subaru doesn't offer them.
A lot of off road folk like to add a bull bar. Not offered by Subaru
Strut tower braces are a very popular aftermarket item among performance car enthusiasts. Subaru doesn't offer it. Very few OEMs do.
Wix and others market a gauge that can be installed in the air filter box. It tells you when to change the air filter. It is very common on big trucks and industrial applications. Subaru doesn't offer it. Most auto manufacturers don't.

Every one of these have risk involved. But they also have great benefits. To suggest that because of the risk, that there is no benefit, is to be in total denial of the facts.

 

[Sandbag]

Reading this thread made me think of a tool that I'd need if I decided to start changing my own oil again like I did for many years. This is it.

 

[johnre]

I just got caught up on this thread after ignoring it for a while by reading the last 20 posts. Man, my head hurts.

It seems there is no middle ground on this issue, sort of like hot button political issue like abortion or gun control or whatever - people are either dead set for it, or dead set against it. So I'm going to take the middle ground - well, just because I think we need fewer people backing up to the wall and pointing fingers, and more people just talking reasonably. So I'll try to initiate a reasonable discussion here.

I think Fumotos are very reliable, and I would not be at all concerned putting one on my vehicle.

I also think a drain plug is reliable, and having done perhaps 200 oil changes over my lifetime, I've never cross threaded a drain plug or damaged it in any way. I don't know how common this kind of damage is out there, because I don't let others do these simple tasks that I can do better.

I'd expect a Fumoto to be convenient to use, and I'm sure it is.

Then again, after 200 or so oil changes, I always do things the same way with a drain plug, very precisely, I have tricks to avoid spills, and that's not at all a concern to me. So convenient, well, not as much as a Fumoto; workable, yes.

I have had very slow oil weepage when I stretched changing out a crush washer one too many times, and I would expect both a drain plug and a Fumoto to be subject to this. But the drain plug would be more so because it has to be removed and reinstalled each oil change, and it brings in an element of the unknown with the finite cycle life of a crush washer. But even so, the incidence rate of oil weepage is still low for me, the consequences minimal, and the risk of a catastrophic oil loss virtually nonexistent.

I do look at all of the relative work involved on oil changes, and I'd have to say that getting the oil filter off from underneath a Gen 3 cleanly is by far the trickier task, and takes the most time. And since I still have my stock undertray in place, with its hokey swing-away door and plastic pop fasteners, that's an added complexity to horse around with.

So my bottom line is this: I go to change my oil, and my efforts are 80% oil filter, 10% oil drain, and 10% oil refill. I don't see much point in getting a Fumoto, simply because its time savings, effort savings, and cleanliness factors are all minimal to me. That might change if I were mobility challenged and wanted to continue as a DIY'er (and I suppose I would need the oil filter up top if that were the case) - if it made the difference between me doing the changes or having to trust someone else to do it, I wouldn't hesitate to get a Fumoto.

But for now, it's a "don't need it" for me.