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Fumoto valve and oil pan failure

38K views 89 replies 40 participants last post by  N4HHE  
#1 ·
I went in to my local Subaru dealer for an oil change and asked them to install the Fumoto F108N valve I brought with me. They told me their technician advised against it because the aluminum oil pan and Fumoto brass valve may create warranty issues. I asked them to go ahead with the install. I haven't read anywhere in this forum of any outright warranty issues using a Fumoto valve on a Subaru.

So, I was creating a spreadsheet with my maintenance records, and was going through the invoice for when I had the Fumoto valve installed and noticed in the labor notes, it states "Installed new valve as per customer request. No applied warranty for failure of parts or oil pan." So if there is failure in the oil pan for any reason Subaru can attribute it to the installation of the Fumoto valve?
 
#2 ·
... the aluminum oil pan and Fumoto brass valve may create warranty issues.
Bulldust! The bushing that the valve threads into is steel, and while I've never checked I'd be surprised if the oil pan itself isn't stamped steel as well. A simple magnet will tell for sure.

So if there is failure in the oil pan for any reason Subaru can attribute it to the installation of the Fumoto valve?
At the bare minimum, they would have to affirmatively demonstrate that the Fumoto valve somehow caused damage to the oil pan. They can't just "assume" by default. Of course, they would have no responsibility if the aftermarket valve were to fail. Don't worry, though; nothing bad is likely to happen.
 
#3 ·
Bulldust! The bung that the valve threads into is steel, and while I've never checked I'd be surprised if the oil pan itself isn't stamped steel as well. A simple magnet will tell for sure.

At the bare minimum, they would have to affirmatively demonstrate that the Fumoto valve somehow caused damage to the oil pan. They can't just "assume" by default. Of course, they would have no responsibility if the aftermarket valve were to fail. Don't worry, though; nothing bad is likely to happen.
Unfortunately, the burden of proof is on the customer if they want to appeal Subaru's decision not to honor the warranty..

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
 
#9 ·
I'm sure there are plenty of reports on car forums worldwide with verifiable reports of galvanic action between a Fumoto and an oil pan.

That's sarcasm for those from Dense Skull, USA.

If people are going to toss out nonsense, true facts or anything else at least cite an example or source so others can partake in the knowledge firtshand.

Here's one - If the labels fall off two different crayons and you put them back on the wrong ones, the crayons will change color to match the labels. I said it, you read it on the internet therefore you have to believe it. I don't have to give a source or proof.
 
#11 ·
There is no way any dealer would approve of installing that valve for oil draining. There is a reason every manufacturer uses a bolt release the oil from the oil pan. Its simple , fool-proof, and has virtually a zero failure rate. There is no point to the Fumoto valve. You still gotta get under the car, you still need a catch can, you still need to dispose of the old oil. The only thing it does do is introduce risk with almost zero reward. Not a good deal.

Sorry, the dealer was right. If I was the dealer, I would not have installed it at all.
 
#25 ·
Sorry, the dealer was right. If I was the dealer, I would not have installed it at all.
Nope, you're both wrong.

Any dealer that would not install something that Subaru considers Genuine Parts status would never get my money for anything again. Any dealer that wrote what the OP states on a service order should get reported to SOA.
 
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#13 ·
IF the oil pan fails, it'd be associated with the dealer's threading the valve into the pan. Otherwise how would the pan fail? Since you had the dealer install the valve than do it yourself, do you have the dealer change your oil? If you do, the. The issue is likely more a matter of they don't want to use the slower drain rate FUMO....or they'll remove the valve at every oil change....which would concern me more. As an FYI....dealers and oil change franchise "oil change experts" muck up the pan threads while reinstalling drain plugs occasionally!

If you change your own oil, why didnt you install the valve yourself....it's as easy as removing/reinstall a oil drain plug.
 
#15 ·
...and my Subaru dealer, in 2015, happily installed my Fumoto valve, no questions, no problems....I was having my first free dealer oil/filter change and wanted to get ready for my own future oil changes....

BTW, I seem to recall that the Japanese Automotive Manufacturer's Association (NOT the correct name but similar as I recall), made up of all of the larger Japanese companies, approved of the Fumoto product at least 15 years ago........said so on its site as well as Fumotos's.......I checked before I put one on my 2003 Forester.

FWIW!

Steve
 
#17 ·
Certifications and Endorsements | Fumoto® USA


The Fumoto Oil Drain Valve has been tested and granted a "Genuine Parts" status by 6 major motor vehicle manufacturers in Japan, including Toyota, Nissan, Mazda, Mitsubishi, Subaru and Isuzu. These approvals were granted after rigorous testing and remain a testimony to the quality and durability of Fumoto Oil Drain Valve.
 
#18 ·
Copper is a common element used inside your engine. Most commonly found in plain bearings used on crankshaft and connecting rods. Alloyed with tin (bronze), zinc (brass), and many other nefarious elements.

Motorcycles commonly run the alternator inside the engine bathed on motor oil.

There are plenty of steel parts making up one FuMoto Valve Assembly. If galvanic corrosion were to occur then the steel parts of FuMoto Valves would be falling apart.
 
#20 ·
Galvanic corrosion requires water or similar electrolyte to cause ions to flow. Oil is a non-polar molecule. It ain't gonna happen between the valve and pan. The technician and the SM are full of bull.

I've considered putting a Fumoto valve on my Outback a decade ago when I bought it but oil changes are so easy, I've never bothered to. You don't even need to lift the vehicle to get under it to remove the drain plug. The only PIA is the filter surrounded by the exhaust (Gen3 Outback).
 
#23 ·
I never saw the need for a Fumoto valve on my 2013 2.5. I did not understand why people installed them. Then I bought a 2017 2.5 with a plastic pan under the engine with the little hole in the plastic pan to drain the oil. After the first oil change I bought a Fumoto valve. Oil changes are again super easy. I run a tube from the Fumoto to the empty 5 qt oil jug left from the last oil change. Open the valve and wait for the jug to fill. If you own a gen 5 2.5 and you do your own oil changes, you need a Fumoto valve. Try it, you'll like it.
 
#27 ·
I have a NeverLeak hose reel with aluminum fittings. I attached a hose with a brass fitting and used it for several years.


The hose reel failed and NeverLeak sent me a replacement (nice of them!).


But when I went to remove the hose from the old unit, the brass and aluminum had fused. I eventually put enough torque on them to bust the aluminum but pieces were still fused together. It was like they were welded.



Maybe that is what the technician was worried about. It just means you can never remove the valve.


https://garden.org/ideas/view/silvercbx/2655/A-Warning-about-Hoses-with-Aluminum-Fittings/
 
#29 ·
Maybe that is what the technician was worried about. It just means you can never remove the valve.
1) The threaded bushing in the oil pan isn't aluminum, it's steel, and the pan itself is steel, too.

2) Consider also that the threads of the drain fitting ... whether OE drain plug or Fumoto valve ... are constantly bathed in engine oil, which functions as a dielectric.

Galvanic corrosion just ain't gonna' happen in the threaded region under these conditions ... at least not on the time scale of a motor vehicle's lifetime. Your nifty aftermarket carbon-fiber accessories are a more likely initiator of galvanic corrosion than a brass and stainless steel oil drain valve.

That said, it's your car. You're free to do as you wish with it.
 
#31 ·
I will say that the device is not completely safe from the outside environment, meaning, road debris mixed up with water and salt could cause corrosion. Have you ever had a copper turned green vehicle ground wire crumble in your hand? To each his own! I am unsure if the ISO cert is for the “leak-proofness” of the valve only, but more of just a we make these all the same and pay ISO $100k
Also, mechanics and service advisors may just say things they are unqualified to say.
More than likely it’ll be fine tho
 
#34 ·
Only way to safeguard your car from hazards of any kind is just put it in your living room where you can keep it clean and admire it from all angles....

If I had a dime for every report of improperly installed oil plugs/crush washers, by both dealers AND DIYS owners, I'd have a lot of dimes.....

So: you pay your money and make your choice.........

Happy Labor Day to everyone! The chuckleheads are on the roads today in vast numbers so drive defensibly!

Steve
 
#37 ·
Drain Plug

Oil change involves removing a Drain Plug simple enough. I do my own oil changes do not have a flutey. Never heard of a flutey valve until I bought a Subaru can they be used on Chevy’s???
 
#44 ·
They are not giving you any warranty on the Fumoto valve & they are being "cute" by including your oil pan as well. There's no way that the Fumoto valve once installed correctly will damage your oil pan, unless it is knocked off by something you run over. Even then it may just break the valve off & not damage the steel threads of the oil pan. Don't worry be happy you don't have to worry about a noob wrench putting the plug back in with an impact drill & stripping out your oil pan threads anymore. No fun it happened to me. I made it 1/2 mile away from the garage before all the warning lights came on & I could see an oil slick in my rear view mirror. And remember to check the oil level before you start your car whenever you have anyone else change your oil. Just my 2 cents worth from things I learned to do the hard way.
 
owns 2018 Subaru Outback 2.5l Touring
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#45 ·
NH44E made some great points about having hot oil running down your arm and splashing up from the drain pan. I rarely find that after pulling the plug that I'm not also searching for a rag. I get why people want to use one of these valves, even if I don't. Subaru owners should instead be worried about their steel pans rusting through. Up here in the land of road salt, I noticed leaking through rust on the oil pan of the 2005 2.5 just a few years after I bought it, new. I was surprised, as I had thought it was just surface rust, especially since one would think that the plastic diaper would have kept the road salt away. I thought "No problem, I'll just replace the oil pan," but then I realized that the engine would need to be pulled to get to all the bolts. Instead, after draining the oil on the next change, I removed the rust, coated it with JB-Weld, repainted it, and it stayed that way without another leak for over 100K miles when I sold the car.

I took the car into the local dealer once for an oil change, and that was the free one, shortly after the car's purchase. When I went to do the next change myself, I had to use a 1/2" breaker bar to get the plug loose. I was once a professional mechanic myself, and I know that it's the new guys who get the routine jobs like oil changes, but that's no excuse for screwing up such a simple task. I have only taken Subies to the dealer a few times since then, typically for warranty or recall work, as well as a difficult to diagnose illuminated MIL, and it seems that every visit was a disaster in terms of my satisfaction. They're nothing but a polite bunch of overpriced clowns. I'd rather do the work myself and know that it's done right. The fact that I can save a huge amount of money in the process just sweetens the deal.
 
#47 ·
BHopkins, you have an incredible imagination.


cross threading drain plug? Possibly if you try and install it after drinking a 6 pack of cheap beer.
replace an oil drain plug because it starts wearing out? You would have to use a 16 point socket and purposely put it on and angle over and over again to come close to wearing it out.

BHopkins,

you still need to get under the car right?
you still need a drain pan right?
you still need to dispose of the old oil right--by transferring it to another container.
and dont tell me or anyone on this forum that you can do all this without getting any oil on your hands.

This is not an aftermarket accessory like car mats are.. I hope the difference is clear to everyone.
The valve introduces risk that you did not have before, the car floor mats do not.


When Subaru installs it from the factory and includes it in the warranty against failure and damage to the engine. I will be the first in line to get it.


Until then, it takes me 15 minutes to change the oil from start to finish. I slide an thin sheet of wood paneling under the car. Few drops fall on the paneling, and few drops go on my hands.
Guys, this is acceptable!!! You are not changing the oil while wearing a friggin suit!
Never encountered any of the absolute nonsense that BHopkins describes above.


How can you trust a $15 item to protect your 30-40,000 dollar investment?

And more important, why doesn't the manufacture offer it as an option?
 
#48 ·
And more important, why doesn't the manufacture offer it as an option?
Because they do fail and they can leak.

Having once been part owner of a shop I have probably done a 1000 oil changes in my life. Never once cross threaded a drain plug. Never had a drain plug fail.

Of course I guess it could be useful for those not bright enough to tell the difference between the oil drain plug and the CVT drain plug.
 
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#55 ·
For those that eschew using the Fumoto I could better take your dislike if you actually used one, experienced it and then rejected the concept or design.

It's like saying you don't like sushi, won't try it and those possess a lazy mind for not cooking the fish in the way you think it should be done.

Did I get that right?

If we go with relative cost to the car dying or going kaboom on the road, take an itsy bitsy hose clamp. Less than $2 and yet, if it fails it's no bueno but no one frets over a hose clamp because the failure rate is zero and I challenge anyone who doesn't like the Fumoto or any other similar device to post a first person account of the failure and circumstances to best make your point.

Not a good friend, or friend of a friend or my buddy's girlfriend's hunting partner but a real story with facts, pics or something solid that is evidence. Not a story where the car was beat to snot, in a crash or something similar but instead a story where the Fumoto failed without outside interference or influences. There are countess stories where drainplugs aren't put back in by dealers, indie shops or Iffy Lube type of places so one's patron saint of infallability - the factory drain plug - isn't pefect but I'd venture to say that a Fumoto properly installed the first time does not have similar problems for as long as you own the car.

On my OB with the plastic shield the Fumoto does not extend below that and for something to get up in the drainplug area would have to be something extraordinary that my guesstimate is that the front and underside of the car are irreparably damaged and any Fumoto failure is secondary to that and not a primary failure.

Give me something toothy to chew on and not a styrofoam peanut and we can talk.