I'd be interested in sensor data as well.

I had noticed my steering angles weren't left-to-right symmetric. While replacing an inner and outer tie rod I used a laser-level and drew lines on a piece of paper for the 3 conditions; steering centered, full left and full right.

I did this for both left and right front wheels and noticed a difference of ~4 degrees, which apparently is still close if not within spec.

I considered lifting the steering column but first visited Firestone for an alignment, explained to the tech what was going on and asked if he could center the steering wheel and get left and right symmetric. He did a good job and afterwards I didn't notice a difference in left to right steering angles, although I didn't perform these measurements afterwards.

 

I like your approach! Did you have a spec reference for the expected angles?

If i follow you, the "inner" wheel for a turn is pointed 35 degrees, while the "outer" one is pointed 31 degrees. That sounds ideal to me -- if driving in a circle, the inner wheels would be tracing a smaller-radius curve than the outers, and need to turn more.

Or, am I understanding you backwards... And both wheels turn the same angle for the same turn (left v right)?

 

I like your approach! Did you have a spec reference for the expected angles?

The FSM specs are for inside and outside of the wheel/tire, while the angles I measured are rotated 90 degrees. The measurements I made with the laser level are arguably in between the inside and outside of the FSM provided specs. The FSM specified tolerance of +/- 1.5 degrees suggests a total spread of 3 degrees for both the inside and outside measurements, which seems a bit odd to me (they should have specified different tolerances for inside vs outside measurements). As an aside, somewhere else in the FSM they also specify a (centered) steering wheel angle tolerance of +/- 5 degrees which suggests a spread of 10 degrees for your steering to be considered to be centered. I find that too liberal and I'm happy to say my steering wheel angle is centered with +/- 1 or so of a degree.

If i follow you, the "inner" wheel for a turn is pointed 35 degrees, while the "outer" one is pointed 31 degrees. That sounds ideal to me -- if driving in a circle, the inner wheels would be tracing a smaller-radius curve than the outers, and need to turn more.

Sure. But I thus (indirectly) measured the center angle in between the inner and outer portion of the wheel/tire using that laser level, so I would expect and want them to be the same. I really noticed a difference in how much I could turn the wheel left and right starting from a centered steering wheel, which prompted me to just take these measurements. After the alignment I didn't notice much if any difference of how much I could turn the centered steering wheel to its left and right extremes, so I just called it good.

I was happy I didn't have to disconnect the steering column. The Firestone tech may actually have done that, but I wasn't there when he did the alignment and didn't think to ask.

 

Getting angle sensor values can be read with a scan tool that could see the abs/VDC module.

Get an alignment. If the front wheels are where they're supposed to be and the steering wheel is cocked one direction then your rear alignment is most likely out, or you have a low tire.

 

Getting angle sensor values can be read with a scan tool that could see the abs/VDC module.

I have abs but no vdc. Would this work on vehicles without vdc?

 

Actually, the FSM specified tolerance of +/- 1.5 degrees for either an inner or outer measurement is probably correct. No need to have different tolerances whether one measures the inner vs outer wheel (i.e. they should/may deviate by the same angle), or else the difference due to the scrub radius is insignificant for the provided tolerance.

Edit: cleared up confusing language

 

As for me, I’ve been waiting 69 years to understand wheel alignment without success. Waiting for AI to put together a one page summary written at the fourth grade level. Geometry has never been my strong suit. I may drop dead without ever having understood wheel alignment. I’ve come to peace with that.

 

As for me, I’ve been waiting 69 years to understand wheel alignment without success.

It can be confusing. And what I believe is confusing for @airlia101 (and me too) is why the inside wheel would not have a different angle than the outside wheel. If I turn the steering wheel all the way to the left, the 35 degree angle on the left (inner) wheel should be different (greater) than the 35 degree angle measured on the right (outer) wheel, or else the angle on the right wheel should be less than 35 degrees if the left wheel is at an angle of 35 degrees.

Perhaps I'll come up with a better explanation, but for now it seems to have to do with where the laser level was positioned and the (single degree) precision of the measurements. Ultimately, I wasn't measuring for an alignment, rather, I was measuring how much the center of the rotor/axle angled given a centered steering wheel as the starting point. And I wasn't ensuring the wheels were actually straight when the steering wheel was centered.

 

.... or if the steering wheel can just be re-mounted clockwise a notch or two to compensate.

No. The steering shaft to steering wheel is keyed. It goes on only one way.

You can brute force it with a file and grinder, but that's just hacking up a perfectly good spline set to "fix" a problem elsewhere in the car.

 

No. The steering shaft to steering wheel is keyed. It goes on only one way.

You can brute force it with a file and grinder, but that's just hacking up a perfectly good spline set to "fix" a problem elsewhere in the car.

Interesting. The steering wheel on my Saab is connected to a splined shaft, and Saab steering wheels can actually be alligned by a relatively simple adjustment on the splines.

 

Ideally this all needs to be looked at on an alignment hoist/machine.

If the steering wheel is off centre by a noticeably large amount, the easiest thing to check is that...
1. Both front tie rods have roughly the same amount of threads showing/screwed in.

2. You also need to be able to figure out if the front wheels are pointing straight, you can use your laser lines or string, or a long piece of wood, put it flat against the front wheel and measure the gap between the wood and the back wheel (hope that makes sense) which would really only work if the front wheel is toed in. As long as you can get the same measurements on both sides, the front wheels are straight.

If the steering wheel is still off centre as it sits then I would try to adjust the steering wheel by 1 spline.

If it appears to be straight like this but then off centre while driving, then as @cardoc said, it may be down to the rear alignment pulling the car to one side, and you are basically steering into the pull which is why the steering wheel would be off centre.

A lot of people seem to forget how much of an impact the rear toe angles can make.

 

Just sharing this for fun... part of the diagnostic table in the 07 FSM for steering:

I wonder how many techs wanted to take them up on "Replace...customer"!

 

The reason the steering wheel is clocked to one side is due to one side having toe out, and the opposing side has toe in to "compensate" and have the car drive straightish. It's likely dog tracking.
Alignment starts with locking the steering wheel straight. Then setting rear perpendicular thrust angle. Then the tech can set the front. Sounds like the last alignment only got a front toe n go.

 

You can set your toe and steering wheel with two equal length strings and two equal length pipes. It’s the string box method(look it up). I use two pieces of 1/2 emt conduit tubing. Measure and drill your holes equally. Block up the pipes to the center of your wheels and measure from the center of the hub to the string all around to get the box square with your vehicle. I set the tires on folded trashbags so the tires pivot on the ground easy. Then you just measure the front and back of the wheel to the string get your toe numbers and set the toe degrees.

once your toe is within spec, to center the steering wheel, you just turn one tie rod end in and the other out. As long as you do it equally, toe is not affected and only the steering wheel moves.

removing the steering wheel and recentering it doesn’t work because you end up with a car that may have 21/2 turns left but only 2 turn right 🤣

 

You can set your toe and steering wheel with two equal length strings and two equal length pipes. It’s the string box method(look it up). I use two pieces of 1/2 emt conduit tubing. Measure and drill your holes equally. Block up the pipes to the center of your wheels and measure from the center of the hub to the string all around to get the box square with your vehicle. I set the tires on folded trashbags so the tires pivot on the ground easy. The. You just measure the front and back of the wheel to the string get your toe numbers and set the toe degrees.

once your toe is within spec, to center the steering wheel, you just turn one tie rod end in and the other out. As long as you do it equally, toe is not affected and only the steering wheel moves.

removing the steering wheel and recentering it doesn’t work because you end up with a car that may have 21/2 turns left but only 2 turn right 🤣

 

That won't cure a thrust angle that's off. The rear wheels are always done first.

 

thrust angle is a deviation from the centerline of the car, the string box is centered side to side, so you will see any thrust angle issues in your measurement