Subaru Outback Forums banner

I didn’t realize fog lights are not legal for “regular” use

13K views 74 replies 23 participants last post by  mainstreetmarshall  
#1 ·
I’ve got a 2019 base model and in the process of piecing together OE-style fog lights with a write up for here with multiple options. To clarify confusion and how to not spend $207 on the Subaru kit (my setup would be around $120 including LED bulbs). Upon research, I find that they’re supposed to be wired with high beams.

One of the options I was considering was running an new harness with an aux switch so one does not need to buy the 2018 steering column switch (which requires removal of steering wheel).

This is rather disappointing to find out you can’t legally run them without high beams.
 
#4 ·
The only references I saw to Oregon law were the state statute loosely defining what a fog light is.... and then some OSDOT advisory that fog lights shouldn’t be used after dusk in regular conditions because it was too distracting for other drivers. There was another OSDOT advisory (driving tips) that said not to use bright lights in fog or snow as it’s not effective as low beams are.
 
#7 ·
Right.

“According to Oregon law, fog and/or auxiliary lights must be used like the high beam headlight system of your car. They must be turned off when within 500 feet of an oncoming vehicle and within 350 feet when following another vehicle.”

Note the “must be used like” is a reference to turning high beams to low beams when within 500 feet of an oncoming vehicle, or when following another.

So, you can’t run around at night with the fog lights on if there are oncoming cars, or you’re following someone.

Same applies to high beam lights.
 
#10 ·
In my humble opinion, that is a STUPID law.....I know, I know..... politicians are rarely intelligent.

The entire PURPOSE of a true "fog" light is to be able to shine below the fog/snow so the driver can see where he is going. A "fog" light is focused so low that it will NEVER shine into another drivers eyes. (A "fog" light is mounted low and pointed down from there)

What is the purpose of a "fog" light when the high beams are reflecting off the fog/snow right back in the drivers eyes?

In MOST states, the foglights are ON with LOWbeam... and that is how Subaru factory sets it up.
 
#12 ·
In my humble opinion, that is a STUPID law.....I know, I know..... politicians are rarely intelligent.

The entire PURPOSE of a true "fog" light is to be able to shine below the fog/snow so the driver can see where he is going.

What is the purpose of a "fog" light when the high beams are reflecting off the fog/snow right back in the drivers eyes?

In MOST states, the foglights are ON with LOWbeam... and that is how Subaru factory sets it up.
That was my other question. How are Outbacks wired? Or the Legacys because they use the same switch as the 2019 Outback due to Eyesight buttons.
 
#14 ·
Wiring with high beams defeats the purpose of fog lights. It's been 46 years since I had driver's education in high school but I explicitly remember them telling us you do not use high beams in fog. Low only. So fog lights should only be used (when using with fog) when you are using low beams. I've tried high beams in fog and yes, it does make matters worse. Low only.
 
#15 ·
Wiring with high beams defeats the purpose of fog lights. It's been 46 years since I had driver's education in high school but I explicitly remember them telling us you do not use high beams in fog. Low only. So fog lights should only be used (when using with fog) when you are using low beams.
Just not when driving behind someone or when someone is coming toward you.
 
#17 ·
Personally I have my fog lights on all the time with low beams because of the silly Steering Responsive Fog Lights on my 2017 that can't be permanently shut off. I got tired of one or the other of the fog lights turning on and off on curvy roads and when turning that I just turned them on and never turned them off again.

I've always hated the idiots who drive with their fog lights on all the time. Now I am one of those idiots.
 
#48 ·
Personally I have my fog lights on all the time with low beams because of the silly Steering Responsive Fog Lights on my 2017 that can't be permanently shut off. I got tired of one or the other of the fog lights turning on and off on curvy roads and when turning that I just turned them on and never turned them off again.

I've always hated the idiots who drive with their fog lights on all the time. Now I am one of those idiots.
I put an orangish-yellow laminate on my fog lights and run them all the time (day and night) with low beams on. On my 03 Bean I have six lights on in front; two headlights, the two yellow running lights, and the two fogs. Cars coming the other way can definitely see me. I live in a high traffic, high accident area and need all the help I can get from the idiots out there.

Somebody commented about turning off fogs when behind or approaching another car. Can't understand that as the fogs are so low and dispersed so widely that they won't bother anybody.

And, on my Bean when I go to high beams the fog lights automatically shut off.
 
#19 ·
I mis-interpreted what was said.

But the concern is there still from a legal perspective.

So they are in fact wired so you can have them on whenever. Well, whenever the low beams are on anyway, right?
 
#21 ·
Thank you for the clarification on this.

I’m undecided how I want to wire the lights. Factory or aftermarket harness. I will be running LED ‘light bar’ lights soon so I don’t really want a second switch. So I might just use factory wiring for the OE dogs and run a separate harness for the off-road flood lights. Drilling holes on a car within 600 miles pains me slightly. But ya gotta pay to play.

Running a new harness with H11 plugs costs around $20. The factory column switch runs $45-$70. The trade off of install ease vs saving some money and spending more time running a new harness. Although I’m stringing a new harness anyway.

Also, a new harness would allow me to use fog lights off road with the LED bar and high beams.

Decisions. :-O
 
#30 ·
On cars, I had/have with factory installed fog lights:
-2006 Rav4 you can have on either fog lights or High beam, they are mutually exclusive. fog lights do work together with low beams on or off
-2001 BMW 325i (E46) same as above
-2013 Honda Accord same as above
-2016 BMW 320 (F20) came from factory as above, but you can program it to have it your way, I did it so I could run fog lights at any time engine running, and had brights and fog lights to come up when doors unlocked with key fob.
-2019 OB same as Rav4.
Actually mutually exclusive arrangement makes sense. The only reason I used High's and Fog's together is on rural not illuminated streets when high beams focused far ahead but fog lights have a wider pattern and fill with light in near range.
I would never think running high beam in the fog or in dense snowfall: it is like looking directly into bright light!

Just one more thing: I love those laws that are not enforceable: until police invest into rangefinders, what is the proof that driver had highs on within 500' of incoming traffic? The best officer can do is read you a lecture and let you off, not even with warning.
 
#39 · (Edited)
OK - now I have to run the experiment. I guess Subaru implemented things a bit different than expected and how ALL the vehicles I've ever driven have worked. Which isn't to say it's bad, There is a reason why one uses varying levels of illumination at a distance in this way, and I think it's a bit more than just light intensity, but rather also height or angle. I believe so your brain perceives more 3D information, but I'm getting so old - I think ... wait I forgot what I was just thinking...

Never had a vehicle with fog lights before so will have to test that as well. Honestly, I'm not even sure how to turn them on. Time for me to speak to the garage door.
 
#40 ·
I think I’m going to run a new harness. I got one on a Prime Day deal for $11.50.

This method will cost less than $100 including LED “bulbs”.

I just hope it’s easy enough to run new wire.
 
#46 ·
I’ve got a 2019 base model and in the process of piecing together OE-style fog lights with a write up for here with multiple options. To clarify confusion and how to not spend $207 on the Subaru kit (my setup would be around $120 including LED bulbs). Upon research, I find that they’re supposed to be wired with high beams.

One of the options I was considering was running an new harness with an aux switch so one does not need to buy the 2018 steering column switch (which requires removal of steering wheel).

This is rather disappointing to find out you can’t legally run them without high beams.
I think you are wrong! You can only use
I’ve got a 2019 base model and in the process of piecing together OE-style fog lights with a write up for here with multiple options. To clarify confusion and how to not spend $207 on the Subaru kit (my setup would be around $120 including LED bulbs). Upon research, I find that they’re supposed to be wired with high beams.

One of the options I was considering was running an new harness with an aux switch so one does not need to buy the 2018 steering column switch (which requires removal of steering wheel).

This is rather disappointing to find out you can’t legally run them without high beams.
I think You are wrong! you canuse foglights only on low beam. In fact you shuld not attemp to drive in fog on high beam. You want to see under the fog not blind yourself with high beam reflection. The factory fog lights on my 2015 will only work on low beam and only one at a time which I dont like.
 
#47 ·
I think you are wrong! You can only use

I think You are wrong! you canuse foglights only on low beam. In fact you shuld not attemp to drive in fog on high beam. You want to see under the fog not blind yourself with high beam reflection. The factory fog lights on my 2015 will only work on low beam and only one at a time which I dont like.
Already been addressed, shouty guy :eye-roll:
 
#53 ·
I have a 2017 OBT. The light solution I opted for was to replace the std fog lights with a higher output Halogen light. I run them pretty much all the time w low beams in city driving and find they are better than high beams and no fog lights. Have never had a flash from an oncoming car. For night driving in remote areas where there are deer or other critters, I also installed a 20” 10,000 lumen light bar, which is on a separate switch. It’s tucked into the lower grill opening and has a mix of wide angle and forward illumination. Helps to spot animals so we don’t unwittingly kill each other. (On a related note, also am a believer in deer whistles ...have had several deer turn, look and run the other way ...just sayin’)
 
#57 ·
The housings will be in soon. My aim for doing a write up was for those with base models that didn’t come with them.

I ordered a harness instead of using the factory one. I also ordered another harness for the lights that will eventually go on a bull bar. I’ll run them at the same time.

I have a slight concern of the routing of a new harness to the factory fog light location. We’ll see how it goes.
 
#59 ·
I’ve got a 2019 base model and in the process of piecing together OE-style fog lights with a write up for here with multiple options. To clarify confusion and how to not spend $207 on the Subaru kit (my setup would be around $120 including LED bulbs). Upon research, I find that they’re supposed to be wired with high beams.

One of the options I was considering was running an new harness with an aux switch so one does not need to buy the 2018 steering column switch (which requires removal of steering wheel).

This is rather disappointing to find out you can’t legally run them without high beams.
 
#61 ·
First, Outback fog lamps are wired from the factory to operate only when the low beams are on and the fog lamp switch is turned on.
Second, Every car I ever owned with factory fog lamps illuminated the fog lamps only when the low beams are on and the fog lamp switch is turned on.
Third, it would make more sense if the fog lamps operated independent of any head lamp illumination. A lamp aimed high reflects on fog , thus reducing visibility.
Fourth, most law enforcement agencies have no time to check on fog lamp operation. So, wire them any way you want.
 
#67 ·
Fog light’s primary purpose is to loosen the purse strings of new car buyers. “It ain’t a premium car if it doesn’t have fog lights!” Is only of value in the rare instance of fog. The rest of the time they only serve to make a spot in front of the bumper brighter and throw a brighter wall of light at oncoming drivers.

Fog (and/or aux) lights are high beams. Doesn’t matter where they are pointed. There is a limit to how much light one can throw down the road on low. Only 2 bulbs are allowed on low, fog makes 4.

There is also a limit in high beams. Hence the need to wire fog/aux light to high beams to automatically turn off the fog/aux lights.

The governing CFR (Code of Federal Regulations) is written in the finest, densest, most obtuse Legal Bureaucratese you will find anywhere. Wordsmithed by those who do not really understand what they are writing about. By golly, that isn’t going to stop them from regulating!

In short, for low the regulations state where the light must land and how much you can emit. On high the light may be unfocused (no required pattern) but there is also a limit to how much may be emitted on-road. Regs do not apply off-road.
 
#70 ·
Fog light’s primary purpose is to loosen the purse strings of new car buyers. “It ain’t a premium car if it doesn’t have fog lights!” Is only of value in the rare instance of fog. The rest of the time they only serve to make a spot in front of the bumper brighter and throw a brighter wall of light at oncoming drivers.

Fog (and/or aux) lights are high beams. Doesn’t matter where they are pointed. There is a limit to how much light one can throw down the road on low. Only 2 bulbs are allowed on low, fog makes 4.

There is also a limit in high beams. Hence the need to wire fog/aux light to high beams to automatically turn off the fog/aux lights.

The governing CFR (Code of Federal Regulations) is written in the finest, densest, most obtuse Legal Bureaucratese you will find anywhere. Wordsmithed by those who do not really understand what they are writing about. By golly, that isn’t going to stop them from regulating!

In short, for low the regulations state where the light must land and how much you can emit. On high the light may be unfocused (no required pattern) but there is also a limit to how much may be emitted on-road. Regs do not apply off-road.
I bet if I look hard enough I can find something correct in that post.
But I'm not going to bother looking very hard.

And mostly just because I've never personally seen a vehicle designed with fog lights wired to come on only with high beams. Seems strange that most or even all manufacturers would design and build all of their vehicles to violate the laws.
 
#69 · (Edited)
[
Fog (and/or aux) lights are high beams. Doesn’t matter where they are pointed. There is a limit to how much light one can throw down the road on low. Only 2 bulbs are allowed on low, fog makes 4.
Maryland Code Sec. 11.14.09.09. Lighting
"Fog lamp" means a lamp that may be used with the lower beam headlights to provide illumination under condition of rain, snow, dust, or fog.