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Proprietary software required for repairs.....

5.9K views 14 replies 10 participants last post by  Wonderlost  
#1 ·
According to this article, Subaru (along with Nissan and others) have created proprietary software that independent repair shops must purchase in order to perform all but the most routine repairs and maintenance....
While I have not encountered this yet, I also have not have any work done on my 2023 other than oil and filter changes. It does, however, seem consistent with Subaru's stand on the Massachusetts right to repair law, to which their response has been to disable Starlink for those of us with cars registered in Mass...
Link to article:
Anyone experience this?
 
#2 ·
We live in the world wide web of misinformation. The information source referenced doesn't seem credible.

There may be several regulations on the subject, the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act [102(c), 15 U.S.C. 2302(c)] may apply. There are new regulation in work such as “the right to repair” bill being discussed in congress. Access to to the instructions for continued airworthiness of airplanes is already protected by federal law.
 
#4 ·
I’m not an automotive industry law expert, however I understand the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act restricts automotive dealerships and manufacturers from denying warranty claims if a vehicle is serviced at an independent shop.

The automotive industry appears to have avoided a formal regulation on access to repair data via a memorandum of understanding. However, I expect there are shortcomings in the memorandum addressed in House Bill H.R 906.
 
#6 ·
According to this article, Subaru (along with Nissan and others) have created proprietary software that independent repair shops must purchase in order to perform all but the most routine repairs and maintenance....
While I have not encountered this yet, I also have not have any work done on my 2023 other than oil and filter changes. It does, however, seem consistent with Subaru's stand on the Massachusetts right to repair law, to which their response has been to disable Starlink for those of us with cars registered in Mass...
Link to article:
Anyone experience this?
John Deere has been vigorously fighting the farmers "Right" to repair their own equipment for years. Even as courts rule in the favor of consumers. Reading just a few articles on this lawsuit will show you there are many things in the way of this "right. Not the least is the manufacture's "right" to protect it's intellectual property. This is just one example, many more can be found.
 
#7 ·
According to this article, Subaru (along with Nissan and others) have created proprietary software that independent repair shops must purchase in order to perform all but the most routine repairs and maintenance....
While I have not encountered this yet, I also have not have any work done on my 2023 other than oil and filter changes. It does, however, seem consistent with Subaru's stand on the Massachusetts right to repair law, to which their response has been to disable Starlink for those of us with cars registered in Mass...
Link to article:
Anyone experience this?
I have heard this from some folks. However, most people I know use the dealers for repairs during the warranty periods to avoid coverage issues.

However, when I read that article, I really wish I knew how to un-read an "article." The writer is grammatically challenged and cannot spell. My eyeballs screamed! It was the reading version of "what is seen cannot be unseen."
 
#8 · (Edited)
Subaru through a third party does sell their proprietary servicing software but it's potentially prohibitively expensive for a small shop. There are some gray market solutions that may not be complete or up to date.



 
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#9 ·
According to this article, Subaru (along with Nissan and others) have created proprietary software that independent repair shops must purchase in order to perform all but the most routine repairs and maintenance....
While I have not encountered this yet, I also have not have any work done on my 2023 other than oil and filter changes. It does, however, seem consistent with Subaru's stand on the Massachusetts right to repair law, to which their response has been to disable Starlink for those of us with cars registered in Mass...
Link to article:
Anyone experience this?
Have you ever heard of the "RIGHT TO REPAIR"? This has been a hot topic in Washington for many months.

Some companies (John Deere) have been pushing propitiatory software for years. This has forced farmers to pay for 'authorized' JD technicians to come to their farms to repair broken equipment. (The cost of ALL farm-products reflect this added cost)

I also understand many automakers are also trying to push propitiatory software so they can earn more. So far, even mom-n-pop mechanics have access to the software (for a fee). Even you and I can pay to get 3-day access to it.

In the end, the automakers are simply trying to 'monitize' more products so they can earn more....they do not seem to be preventing the vehicle-owners from accessing.
 
#11 ·
Subaru may have designed the best ODB reader for their vehicles, but that doesn’t prevent a third party from designing an even better ODB reader since the onboard CAN software and OBD2 hardware connenctor meets industry standards.

The ODB2 16 pin connector is industry standard and satisfies federal regulations. The CAN bus software protocal on Subaru models meets the society of automotive engineers standards? Does anyone have insight on where onboard software code used by Subaru requires a proprietary ODB reader?
 
#14 ·
Does anyone have insight on where onboard software code used by Subaru requires a proprietary ODB reader?
So, you might be interested in this article: WTF! It Should Not Be Illegal to Hack Your Own Car's Computer I was well versed and affected by it, as I used the software to get into my 2015 Mazda 3 and add Android Auto before it was available. Since then, Mazda has "fixed" their software to prevent anyone that doesn't have their license signature from getting in and adjusting anything. They also threatened to sue anyone who publicly posted the OEM updates online. There were hacks requiring hooking up a specific piece of hardware, and this worked, as long as you did not update your software past a certain point. Pretty much ALL the newer vehicles have proprietary software. The industry standards you mention only cover specific codes and communication protocols. But, they do not prevent someone from requiring a licensing signature to make updates back to the computer. So, someone might be able to replace your DCM. But, they won't be able to unloock it so that you can use it. Same thing for your keys.

I have worked in instrumentation for over 30 years. This is actually standard practice for A LOT of comanies, not just automotive. When you have a piece of $20 test equipment that costs $5K or more for annual calibration, the company will charge you $10K or more for a time limited license to access the adjustments if you want to work on it yourself. One company in particular will not sell to third party calibraiton and repair facilities. So, you either pay the $10K or more yourself, and then have to buy the additional specialized equipment (assuming you have someone employed that actually knows what they are doing and how to use it), OR you send it back to them. Either way, it will ultimately wind up costing the same. They do this on purpose to force you to use them without actually forcing you.

My personal opinion is that it should be illegal. In vehicles, there is an almost valid argument that they are protecting the consumer from being externally hacked. In other industries, not so much. By making the license cost prohibitive, they could argue that only legitimate persons would pay the cost to get AND keep access. I disagree. But, who am I to argue with the auto industry.
 
#12 ·
Most of the capable bidirectional scan tools require a subscription to keep them up to date - the SSM is particularly expensive. Here's a decent video that reviews a few different models

for generic OBD data, pretty much whatever will work - for bidirectional, it seems to vary from vendor to vendor (I watch Southmain Auto pretty regularly and he's often running into limitations of some of the tools, and switching to different ones - for very specialized stuff, he often has to go to an OEM tool)
 
#15 ·
Thanks for sharing your experience; I have a deep respect for software engineers.

Subaru appears to use two Controller Area Network (CAN) domains, the main CAN is a critical function domain and the body CAN domain is for non-critical functions. Critical functions have to be protected from modification while bi-directional OBD readers may be able to run (but not modify) code in the critical domain. These separations are typically accomplished with a software firewall using encryption certificates. I don’t really see this as proprietary code since the use of encryption certificates is ubiquitous.

I’m an advocate for the right to repair our cars, however the right to modify critical function software could result in new oversight regulations to mitigate the risk of fatalities.