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Recommended All Season Tire

38K views 51 replies 23 participants last post by  Zahn  
#1 ·
Hello everyone. Basically my 1st post other than introduction. I've recently purchased a 2019 Limited 3.6R and it came with the OEM Dueler H/P AS tires. Appears there is a love hate relationship with these tires. I've read very positive reviews and then some people just trash these tires. I would think Subaru wouldn't make these OEM if they weren't capable don't you? Regardless in the next month or 2 I'll be in the market for tires and I mainly want a tire that has excellent wet and dry traction, quiet and pretty good in the snow and ice. I live in Kentucky and we typically don't get a ton of snow but it's not uncommon to receive 4-8+ lol. My driving habits are mainly Interstate 30 miles one way to work.

I see the Michelin CrossClimate is popular but I'm not a fan of the tread design to be quite honest. I would love to know what you guys recommend. Thank you in advance.

Sam
 
#2 ·
OEM are perfectly good road tyres with limited off-road capability. They are reasonably light, good on fuel efficiency and have reasonable off road performance. They can even go on a beach, but you'll find it next to impossible to steer in the softer stuff because the shoulders have no way to dig at the sand.

Aftermarket you have tonnes of options. If you are never going off-road, then there are tyres that are better than the Duelers day to day but are just as light, similar priced or cheaper, work well in winter, etc.

If you want to go off-road, then expect to buy an all-terrain (AT) tyre that will be heavier and this will have a small impact on your fuel efficiency, but not only will it perform better off-road and be able to claw it's way through sand and mud, you are less likely to get a tyre puncture too, and as an added bonus, AT tyres just look better on an Outback. The only expected downside is that you may have slightly reduced tarmac grip with the larger tread blocks, but in turn these can usually give you better wet road grip because it can displace water more easily.

I'm personally driving a set of Yokohama G015 AT tyres and they have been amazing on everything I've thrown at them, except snow - I don't have snow to drive through anyway, but apparently they aren't great in snow. I'm still able to fling the car through corners with complete abandon though.
 
#3 ·
Thank you HyRax. I have no plans to Off-Road so a touring or highway tire will be sufficient enough. The OEM Duelers according to Tire Rack testing are very capable however, the user reviews seem to be less than stellar. Personally I think user reviews can be helpful but also very inaccurate. The OEM Dueler is rated for 40K miles as it's classified as a UHP All Season tire so people bitching about mileage over 30K should recognize this but do not lol. I'm looking at Michelin, Continental and Goodyear also.
 
#4 ·
Two popular "flavors" of tires seem to be the most common for the 17" and 18" OB sizes. Touring and All Season.

There's pros and cons to both.

Touring is the mid line between a performance tire and an all season.
Touring will give you a quiet ride, better handling, better wear at highway speeds as it sucks some to of the tech off of performance tires. Draw backs are price, traction and ride quality. Touring cost more. Touring tends to be marketed as a higher tier choice of tire. These tend to be placed by OEs on the luxury or upper priced cars. The tire has to perform well on skidpads, and be quiet at the same time. Touring has to check off all the boxes.

All Season, is just that. The best traction you will get without getting into a specialty tire like an All Terrain or a Snow tire.
With AS, you loose the handling. The rubber formulation is there to maximize traction. This makes for a lesser performing tire for those that drive "spiritedly". You start getting into temperature rating that are lower, and the tires wear faster at highway speeds/temps. They tend to ride better, as they are softer. These are generally cheaper, as all they need to do is grip. You loose the performance formulations and the carcass reinforcements of the Touring.

I live in salt belt Ohio, right on a great lake. We get hammered with snow, rain, and our roads are garbage year round. I like to go with the highest mileage AS I can find. I need the traction. I like the softer rides, as the the roads are wrecked. The majority of my driving is congested highway traffic. I'm not seeing the speeds that I will benefit from any highway formulation.

If you live in the south, I'd say go Touring. You won't need all the traction, but you will need the higher temp ratings for hot roads.

If you are not one to babysit wheel balance, tire pressures, rotations, and alignments, avoid directional or asymmetrical. Albeit they do offer a bell or whistle in the way they handle per their specific design intent. However, the average driver will not use them to their full potential, and they do not respond well to inconstant wear damage due to maintenance neglect.
 
#6 ·
The stock Dueler's on my previous 2018 2.5i were wimpy, soft-sidewall tires that I thought would come off the rims in a hard corner. Ended up selling those and getting from Yokohama Geolander G015's which became pretty poor in wet weather as they aged. You could easily wash out the front tire (even with the lack of any torque in the 4 cylinder). Now have a 2017 3.6r and the stock Dueler's on that car were great. Perhaps the additional motor weight of the 3.6r (stuck like glue compared to then on my 2.5i). Go figure! Perhaps they were a slightly different Dueler model?
 
#7 ·
@Sleeper22 I just went through this process here on the forum, but I'm in CO so I ended up going with a dedicated snow tire.

That being said, I cannot recommend Nokians enough. If you're into the burly look, check out the Outpost APT. A fantastic all-weather tire. If you don't care about looks, or all season > all weather, I recco the Nokian One highly. I had it on my Crosstrek (before upgrading to my Outback Onyx) and really loved them.

IMO, Nokian is the best at both dedicated snow tires and tires that can hold their own in any weather.
 
#8 ·
@Sleeper22 I just went through this process here on the forum, but I'm in CO so I ended up going with a dedicated snow tire.

That being said, I cannot recommend Nokians enough. If you're into the burly look, check out the Outpost APT. A fantastic all-weather tire. If you don't care about looks, or all season > all weather, I recco the Nokian One highly. I had it on my Crosstrek (before upgrading to my Outback Onyx) and really loved them.

IMO, Nokian is the best at both dedicated snow tires and tires that can hold their own in any weather.
I live in Alaska and only use Nokians on my 3 vehicles, and will swap OEMs for WRG4s when my Touring XP gets here.
 
#10 ·
I see the Michelin CrossClimate is popular but I'm not a fan of the tread design to be quite honest. I would love to know what you guys recommend. Thank you in advance.
Sam
Do you want a tire that works or a pretty tread design that you can't help but stare at every time you walk out to your car.
 
#14 ·
I've had and sold Continentals. They are a good tire. They are an expensive tire. It's still a Touring tire. If you are driving in the sloppy stuff, I'd go something more aggressive. It's a good tire if you live outside the snow belt areas and see occasional snow.
 
#16 ·
I went from BS Dueler H/P which did nothing right/well, to Goodyear Forterra H/L which bit HARD but rode like wood, to Conti CrossContacts. The Contis were better in the snow than the BSs. The Contis did hydroplane. Outside of that a Continental will handle, it will be quiet, it will hit it's tread warranty.
 
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#17 ·
I’m on my second set of Continentals. Pro Contact or something like that. Really pleased with the performance. I avoid snow as best I can and don’t off road intentionally. I go coast to coast at least once a year, fully loaded, and with some long high speed runs.
Tires are predictable, stable, relatively quiet, with good road manners. Just an FYI.
60k on the first set, 35k on the current set.
 
#18 ·
OMG finally someone else that dislikes the looks of the CC2's!

If you want snow and ice traction, look for an all-weather tire. That's what the CC2 is. I'm a huge fan of Nokian WR G4's. We had them on a past Outback and they were amazing in MN winters.

As far as where to buy them, I had a terrible experience with Discount Tire so I ordered through Simpletire.com and had a local shop swap out the tires. Simple Tire was amazing and came through for me in a time of need lol.
 
#20 ·
@Sleeper22 I agree on not liking the CC2, but mostly because you cannot cross rotate them for longer tread life, because other than that they are very popular.

Lots of positive comments in this thread about Nokian, and I agree; they offer a money back guarantee so you can't go wrong. For the conditions you describe, check out the Nokian Encompass, comparable to the WRG4, but they are exclusive to Discount Tire and are much more affordable. The only negative to Nokian is if your local tire dealer doesn't stock them in case you need a quick replacement. Encompass, WRG4, Outpost are all 3-peak, Nokian One is not.

My next choice would be Continental, who also offers a money back guarantee. They are more expensive, commonly stocked by a lot of tire dealers, but be selective and pick one that is 3-peak. Continental doesn't have as many 3-peak rated tires as Nokian does.

Good luck and happy shopping! Duelers, btw, are not very good, I was glad to see Subaru switch to Yokohama for the 20 model year. There are some good Yokohama choices as others have mentioned above, but I don't think they have a money back guarantee like Nokian and Continental.
 
#21 ·
Thank you very much Daniel for the detailed information. As far as the CC2 they look like they belong on a 4-wheeler and not a vehicle lol. Just my opinion of course 😜 In regards to Nokian I'll check into a dealer locally however, I have not seen one so far. The Continentals may cost more but are very highly rated and I know there are a couple local dealers unless I order online which I may do.
 
#30 ·
The Duelers are just too expensive new to be replaced with the same. There's better tires for less. They're a fine tire and I got 50,000 miles on them. I've taken them on snowy roads up to the ski pass with 40,000 miles on them. Did just fine. And thanks to the internet Dueler bashers, I've found them second hand (like new) for $500 on stock rims. I use these in milder months. So thank you for that guys and gals.

FYI - the average Outback owner probably goes off road 10% of the time. I'm gonna guess that is about 5% too generous of a guess. So if you live in cold icy climate, get what is appropriate. If your more of a pavement pounder without a lot of snow/ice conditions, get a good street tire.

Costco has the CC2's for a good price when they offer a discount. I got these because of the amount of rain I drive in and a bit of snow. Looks wise - I could care less.

Whoever mentioned CC2's can't be cross rotated (ex. rear right to front left), I don't think you really want to do that with any tire brand. Correct me if I am wrong, but I ain't doing that.
 
#31 ·
Whoever mentioned CC2's can't be cross rotated (ex. rear right to front left), I don't think you really want to do that with any tire brand. Correct me if I am wrong, but I ain't doing that.
Check your owner’s manual: Subaru recommends a modified cross, which cannot be done with directional tires. A modified cross rotation cycles each tire through all four locations and results in more even wear and longer tire life. Every vehicle I’ve ever owned has used this pattern. Some go backs straight up, cross the fronts to the back; some go fronts straight back, cross the backs to the front. Subaru is the latter. It doesn’t really matter which version of the modified cross you do as long as you’re consistent.
 
#41 ·
You may wish to look into "SUV" tires. Some manufacturers may not have an AS or Touring offering, but have an SUV offering. Watch your load range. SUV are not the heavy reinforced LT (Light Truck) ratings, but they may have an heavier load range which will require higher pressure, and ride harder, as they are intended for heavier weight/loads. YMMV.
 
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#42 ·
Good info in this thread. Need to replace the original tires on my 2018 OB which is my daily driver. Live in Seattle area where this crazy year we had 3 months of no rain, about 35 inches of rain, about a week of snow on the roads, periodic icy roads. Do some ski days in the winter, some logging roads in the summer, and a few road trips. The original tires have generally done in all those varied situations. Coworkers have the Michelin CC2 and the Goodyear WeatherReady, and both like them. Not sure an AT tire or dedicated winter tires are a good fit though, since I do have a 4x4 pickup for the tougher conditions.
 
#43 ·
I am in Gig Harbor and have similar usage. We ski White Pass every weekend. We are getting the Nokian WR G4 today. Will post a follow up in a few months. Like you, I have a 4x4 truck if I want to do heavy off roading.

If i didn’t need snow performance I would get the Vredestein Quatrac Pro. I just can’t get excited about the CC2’s and I heard the Goodyears are loud.
 
#45 ·
I used to be in the Nokian camp as well, but have premature tire deterioration /cracks with Z-Line UHP and with Weatherproof AS models. Both tires were made in Russia. I hope that on US market they bring them from other factories. Today, even if Nokian Russian made tires were $1 a piece I would not buy them.
 
#46 · (Edited)
Nokian’s North American market tires are manufactured in Dayton, Ohio.


“Nokian Tyres manufactures passenger car tires in its factories in Nokia, Finland and in Dayton, US.”

“Our Dayton factory in the US started commercial tire production in 2020, after which we have gradually increased production capacity. The Dayton factory is where we manufacture North American-specific car and light truck all-season and all-weather tires. The Dayton factory has a significant role in our North American growth plan.

Since 2005, we have also operated a passenger car tire factory in Russia. In June 2022, we announced that Nokian Tyres will initiate a controlled exit from Russia and focus on other core markets.”

My tires came from Ohio in the US with a manufacturing date of 34th week of 2022, so they are only 2-3 months old. Several other tire companies have manufacturing facilities nearby.
 
#47 ·
Well guys I went with the Michelin Defender 2. Mainly because my driving is mostly pavement pounding so needed a tire that handles and wears well, good in the rain, lighter snow and ice and is quiet. The Pirelli P7 CINTURATO AS and Scorpion AS was on my shortlist also but the store manager thinks Michelin is overall just a better tire and actually was cheaper. He also gave me a $175 discount plus the store is minutes from my house so rotations and alignments are free. Well nothing is free lol. If I don't like them I have 30 days to return.