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Why no hybrids?

24K views 76 replies 35 participants last post by  SilverOnyx  
#1 ·
Owner of our 4th & 5th OBs ('99, '04, '11, '14, '19) and will be starting to shop for a '24 and will 99% consider ONLY hybrids.

Wondering when Subaru will join the modern world and offer hybrids? I am not sure but believe they are the ONLY mainstream manufacturer that STILL lacks hybrids!!! UTTER FAILURE!!!

I don't want an EV (YET, until range and charging improves!!!) so the Soltera is out of the question.

If Subaru doesn't have hybrid OBs then we'll likely get a CR-V or RAV4. Wake up Subaru it is 2023 not 2010!!!
 
#4 ·
Owner of our 4th & 5th OBs ('99, '04, '11, '14, '19) and will be starting to shop for a '24 and will 99% consider ONLY hybrids.

Wondering when Subaru will join the modern world and offer hybrids? I am not sure but believe they are the ONLY mainstream manufacturer that STILL lacks hybrids!!! UTTER FAILURE!!!

I don't want an EV (YET, until range and charging improves!!!) so the Soltera is out of the question.

If Subaru doesn't have hybrid OBs then we'll likely get a CR-V or RAV4. Wake up Subaru it is 2023 not 2010!!!
Please inform yourself about the ecological damage the current EV technology will cause.
 
#5 ·
The way I see it, Subaru's hybrid attempt has so far not met its ROI for owners. Check the MSRP and mileage numbers.
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#6 ·
will be starting to shop for a '24
24 is likely the final year of the current design, it doesn't make sense to add it to the lineup for 24. The likely candidate for hybrid will be the 2025 when the redesign happens and there are already rumors of it happening with the next generation.
 
#7 · (Edited)
The reason why Subaru doesn't have many hybrids, and that their hybrids aren't that great, is packaging of Subaru's boxer motor which is not a transverse in-line engine, the Lineartronic CVT and Symmetrical AWD and Subaru's Global Platform are not optimized for adding an electric motor.

Subaru's early exploration of hybrids was to use a very thin pancake motor between the engine and the flywheel but I guess the technology just isn't there yet. Frankly I don't think Subaru can do a hybrid like Toyota because of the packaging issues, unless it's a rebadged Toyota.

This was their first B5-TPH concept with the pancake motor, 2005.
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#8 ·
I really wish Subaru would dump some of the black plastic and make something more trim, like the Audi Allroad. And totally unrelated to the topic at hand!

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#13 ·
I really wish Subaru would dump some of the black plastic and make something more trim, like the Audi Allroad. And totally unrelated to the topic at hand!

View attachment 559920
Well equipped OB = $40k, well equipped Allroad = $75k. That pretty much tells the story. Moving back to the original thread content.
 
#11 ·
Over here in the UK and Europe the OB is the only new Subaru vehicle you can buy that isn't a hybrid (e-boxer) or EV. IMO the hybrids are dreadful and I'll only be buying Subaru if one of their models remains stay ICE.

Hybrids = Heavy vehicles, hence poor acceleration, no space for a spare wheel (What! for a supposed 4x4!), plus seriously reduced petrol(gas) tanks thereby limiting the range. Very little difference in mpg again due to the stonking great weight of the batteries.

Ah yes, and if you search on line for cobalt mining in the Congo and the atrocious conditions that child and women slave labour have to endure (10kgs of unrefined cobalt for just one car battery) you see how lithium batteries are not very social justice warrior at all, as well as hugely polluting due to effects of lithium mining, and there's also the massive problem of those spent, 200kg plus toxic boxes, otherwise know as knackered batteries, which can't yet be recycled. And of course, extra weight means extra tyre wear and all the rubber pollutants that stem from that issue too.

Don't get me wrong, as a petrol-head I know technology and industry can be environmentally dreadful, but to sell 'hybrids' to the public as a 'green' alternative is staggeringly disingenuous.
 
#12 ·
There's no free lunch and every technology has its downsides. It comes down to picking your poison. It's true that the green thing has a dark underside but so does the use of fossil fuels. Ultimately as others have mentioned, it will come down to market forces. The ideal situation may end up being a mix of technology not a one size fits all. There are people who benefit from focusing on only the pros of one technology and the cons of another and vice versa. It's a complicated situation when you consider greenhouse gasses, water (growing corn for ethanol), groundwater contamination, rubber emissions. The more we know the less clear the picture becomes. It's not as simple as EV=Good or EV=Bad.

Technology improves, whether it's ICE or EV/Hybrid. There are always promising technology around the corner which may or may not pan out, and may have downsides that promoters don't mention. There are efforts to remove Cobalt and Lithium from batteries and make solid state batteries. It hasn't happened yet. The situation may become clearer over the next decade.

But I am hopeful that we can improve on our situation - the status quo is not ideal either, at least not in the big picture. Part of it is unfortunately market forces. People are often choosing much more vehicle than they need, but it's their choice. I'm the same way to some extent. I could get by with a Prius or Crosstrek or something smaller but what I want is a larger faster turbocharged sportwagon so I'm nudging my Outback XT that way. It's not necessary and not the most eco-friendly choice but it's my choice.
 
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#15 ·
#16 ·
I was planning to wait a few more years in the hopes of trading in my 2012 Prius Plug-In for a 2025 Outback Hybrid... But, just put in an order for a '23 Limited. I didn't want to wait, and I figured the price will probably be too high as a hybrid for me to afford the purchase price, so just went ahead with the current one. I do like some of the benefits of electrification, and will keep an open mind for whenever Subaru does offer more hybrid vehicles.
 
#17 ·
Hybrids get really fantastic city mileage - better than their highway mileage in fact. That's because braking is the main cause of loss of fuel economy and in a hybrid that energy is stored and re-used - not 100% efficiently but quite significant, and is more efficient than highway mileage because of drag at speed being even worse for efficiency.
 
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#18 ·
Owner of our 4th & 5th OBs ('99, '04, '11, '14, '19) and will be starting to shop for a '24 and will 99% consider ONLY hybrids.

Wondering when Subaru will join the modern world and offer hybrids? I am not sure but believe they are the ONLY mainstream manufacturer that STILL lacks hybrids!!! UTTER FAILURE!!!

I don't want an EV (YET, until range and charging improves!!!) so the Soltera is out of the question.

If Subaru doesn't have hybrid OBs then we'll likely get a CR-V or RAV4. Wake up Subaru it is 2023 not 2010!!!
They are coming. I don’t see this as an utter failure. I see it being a result of being a smaller car company. They are pooling their resources with Toyota…hence the Toyobaru EV…and I think that in the near future you are going to see them. I think they will share more Toyota EV architectur. Be patient young grasshopper…😂
 
#21 ·
The Hybrids that Subaru has currently are compliance cars for California and the states that follow those guidelines. They were never intended for widespread sales, in fact you couldn't buy them in most States even if you wanted to.

Subaru only offered the Crosstrek Hybrid in California, Oregon, Virginia, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, New York, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Maryland, New Hampshire, and Maine, where they follow some California rules
 
#22 ·
After almost two years with a RAV4 hybrid that I traded my 2018 3.6 for, I’m waiting on my ‘23 Onyx to come in. Between the “cable gate” uncertainty, the poor bad-weather performance even on dedicated snow tires, and getting “Hybrid System Malfunction - See Dealer” warning (to which the dealer said “yeah, it’s been really cold (-35C) lately”), I’m going back to old school tech. City mileage is amazing in the summer though.
 
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#27 ·
If you'll excuse the pun, I think that with regard to the planet saving claims of EVs in particular, many people are being taken for 'a ride'. Was it Mark Twain who said that "it's easier to con people, than it is to convince them that they have been/are being conned"?

Interestingly, Liberman, in the article, made no reference to what is increasingly becoming clear in many parts of the world regarding the huge green energy costs crisis. This crisis relates to Malthusian Zero-Sum Poverty trap issues, that global net-zero policies have already begun to plunge many of us all back into. In brief, the trap explains how poorer people get poorer, richer people get richer, due to the massive rise in energy costs when you restrict ordinary people's access to cheap energy. Cheap energy, access to cheap coal and fossil fuels, from the 1820s initially in the UK with the Industrial revolution, broke the poverty trap, as this is happening now in fossil-fuel burning China, India and Indonesia, creating an expanding middle-class and reducing poverty, child mortality, and lengthening people's life spans- see Breaking out of the Malthusian trap: How pandemics allow us to understand why our ancestors were stuck in poverty .

More generally, there are also many other genuine issues that the article conveniently didn't confront - see for example 10-biggest-problems-electric cars

Don't get me wrong, hybrids aren't all bad (IMO) but we need to have the personal choice of whether we want one or not, rather than have them imposed upon us as the only choice by multinational organisations and NGOs that claim to know what's best for us better than we do ourselves and offer us no choice to decide otherwise.

For example, my neighbour has just bought a Jeep Compass self-charging hybrid, and it does indeed seem to be showing great mpg figures, so that's a big plus and a reason to buy one for him. But he, like me, doesn't buy the 'greenwashing' that the car-industry's marketing departments and many Governments are promoting. Also, today in the UK at least, with electricity costs and the fact that 25% of our electricity charges are higher related to "green levies/taxes', the unit cost of electricity to run an EV car is more expensive than the cost of running one on unleaded petrol.

Personally, I wouldn't choose a hybrid Subaru today, as I had the displeasure of driving a Forester e-boxer hybrid for a day, while my OB was being serviced. The Forester only had 3,000 miles on the clock, but compared to my previous experiences driving an ICE Forester, this one was so very heavy and ponderous, presumedly due to the weight of the batteries. Driving away from junctions, particularly at heavily trafficked roundabouts, was not a comfortable experience, and I found myself switching the driving mode to S in order to try (not v effectively) to squeeze some improved acceleration from a standstill, so as to allow me to join the traffic flow safely.

These green issues can be very polarising, and I respect people's right to come to different conclusions, but we do need to have all sides of the debate aired, so everyone can form their own opinion, and change it, or not, when new information or perspectives appear. I just hope Subaru continues to offer some reasonably priced ICE vehicles in the future for customers to be able to choose should they wish.
 
#35 ·
I believe we may see a, ICE-Hybrid Outback with the Gen-7 introduction (2025?). I also believe that Subaru "may" share technology with Toyota on this new Outback, though it is possible Subaru will develop one on its own. Time will tell. . .
 
#37 ·
I for one have no interest in a total electric vehicle, Hybrid maybe but we are going electric crazy here in NY while other states and countries will do nothing...ever- We all suffer for nothing for the most part..

NY wants to push this crazy all electric act and ban natural gas, of course now they say it might get too cold here for heat pumps but never mind freeze ! I would like to keep cars just the way they are.. along with my gas burning lawn mower, snow blower and weed trimmer :)
 
#50 ·
NY wants to push this crazy all electric act and ban natural gas, of course now they say it might get too cold here for heat pumps but never mind freeze !
In Maryland, folks with heat pumps suffered this winter when we had a few nights of single digit temps. Y'all will absolutely freeze - heat pumps just CANNOT keep up with the temps y'all get in the winter, especially upstate and closer to the lakes. Always plan on supplemental heat if you're forced to convert to heat pumps.
 
#38 ·
Owner of our 4th & 5th OBs ('99, '04, '11, '14, '19) and will be starting to shop for a '24 and will 99% consider ONLY hybrids.

Wondering when Subaru will join the modern world and offer hybrids? I am not sure but believe they are the ONLY mainstream manufacturer that STILL lacks hybrids!!! UTTER FAILURE!!!

I don't want an EV (YET, until range and charging improves!!!) so the Soltera is out of the question.

If Subaru doesn't have hybrid OBs then we'll likely get a CR-V or RAV4. Wake up Subaru it is 2023 not 2010!!!
I love a smooth, simple, reliable, lower cost, low maintenance naturally aspirated engine. MPG isn't everything. It is a moderate consideration for me only, among many other factors. "You can pry my 3.6R from my cold dead hands.";)
 
#40 ·
Government tends to play it both ways - they subsidize fossil fuels and ethanol as well. It's true we don't have a totally free market but that's not always a bad thing. Tax credits can nudge consumers one way or another but ultimately people buy what they want - and people want full size trucks apparently, which is their choice, without the government encouraging it.

I'm not going to hang on to one technology or another - mind is open to what the future brings. Bear in mind that EV adoption is not happening only in the USA, and that whatever technology we use is global in nature.
 
#41 ·
Interesting thread. I always considered that the Australian auto market was quite restricted in the available models.

In Australia you can purchase a Hybrid Forester in two different trim levels so I am guessing the Outback hybrid is not too far away.


Seagrass
 
#53 ·
Australian line up is a bit different. Other problem is Australian Outback is made in Japan, and US Outback is made in Indiana.

The differences in which features go to them or us is interesting.