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2020 Volvo V60 cross country vs. Outback XT Touring

17K views 74 replies 29 participants last post by  Jeffrey W.  
#1 ·
Sure like the look of the Volvo, and think I could get away with smaller cargo size. The XT has a lot going for it though, and seems like the better bargain. Haven’t driven either, and was wondering if anyone that has driven both could give some insight in how they feel on road / off road etc... Thanks
 
#3 · (Edited)
@ByTor - I leased a 2020 XC40 (Polestar, Advanced, Heated Steering Wheel, and 20") and Touring XT on the same day in February. My wife and I were coming from a 2017 Jaguar F-Pace and 2018 Volvo XC90. We love the new Volvo and I am literally counting the days till I can turn in the Outback. The next day after picking up the Outback, I was back at Volvo test driving the CC V60 because the 2020 Outback 11" screen does not allow the operator to dial phone calls while in motion while using Bluetooth or Apple Car Play. This is not something that people check out on a test drive (bring a usb cable) plus the Volvo Apple Car Play experience does not restrict it. Assumed all Car Play is the same but it is not.

I am assuming that if you are looking at a CC V60, your price range is already 45-55k. There are MUCH better options than the 41k Touring XT. If I could do it all over again I would keep my F-Pace, just go down to one car until the new Defender 110 comes, or go with an XC60/CC V60. The Outback is a good value in the 30k range (that's why the Onyx XT is so popular) but if having a radio with any decent sound quality matters or having a heated steering wheel (outback steering wheels are only half heated!) then the onyx isn't for you. I didn't go CC V60 because on paper the 0-60 was 8 seconds and my F-Pace was 5.4 0-60. On paper, the Touring XT is 6.1 0-60 but even that is inconsistent with it being in the 7-8 range if you have more than one person in the car. I made the mistake of keeping the Outback and regret it every day. Its just money, but the level of frustration and wasted time is the biggest loss. Started the process for Lemon Law due to the infotainment issue, considering a Class Action suit, and even trying to find someone who will assume my lease.

Subaru looks good on paper but it really comes down to perception versus reality. Subaru of America has carefully groomed their image but the 2020 Outbacks are just a different shade of lipstick on the pig. Other than the huge issue I have with the infotainment/phone calling making it unusable for me, the other shortcomings of the vehicle are cumulative and are noticeably not at the price point Subaru is trying for. For an irrelevant increase in money, there are better options. If you do not believe me, more than happy to let you take over my lease. My loss is your gain.

These are the vehicles I would short list instead;

2020 Kia Telluride: 31,900 starting price. World Car of the Year 2020.

2020 Volvo XC40: 33,700. Purchased this for my wife on the same day as the 2020 Touring XT. Much more enjoyable to drive and has a usable infotainment system.

2020 Volvo XC60: 40,500

2020 MB GLC 300: 42,500

2020 Volvo Cross Country v60: 45,000

2020 Jaguar F-Pace: 45,200. World Car of the Year 2017.

2020 Volvo XC90: 48,350

2020 Land Rover Defender 110: 49,900

Check out my other detailed posts here; Thoughts on moving from 2017 3.6R Limited Edition to 2020 Onyx XT and Poll: So would you buy your outback again?
 
#4 ·
@ByTor - I leased a 2020 XC40 (Polestar, Advanced, Heated Steering Wheel, and 20") and Touring XT on the same day in February. My wife and I were coming from a 2017 Jaguar F-Pace and 2018 Volvo XC90. We love the new Volvo and I am literally counting the days till I can turn in the Outback. The next day after picking up the Outback, I was back at Volvo test driving the CC V60 because the 2020 Outback 11" screen does not allow the operator to dial phone calls while in motion while using Bluetooth or Apple Car Play. This is not something that people check out on a test drive (bring a usb cable) plus the Volvo Apple Car Play experience does not restrict it. Assumed all Car Play is the same but it is not.

I am assuming that if you are looking at a CC V60, your price range is already 45-55k. There are MUCH better options than the 41k Touring XT. If I could do it all over again I would keep my F-Pace, just go down to one car until the new Defender 110 comes, or go with an XC60/CC V60. The Outback is a good value in the 30k range (that's why the Onyx XT is so popular) but if having a radio with any decent sound quality matters or having a heated steering wheel (outback steering wheels are only half heated!) then the onyx isn't for you. I didn't go CC V60 because on paper the 0-60 was 8 seconds and my F-Pace was 5.4 0-60. On paper, the Touring XT is 6.1 0-60 but even that is inconsistent with it being in the 7-8 range if you have more than one person in the car. I made the mistake of keeping the Outback and regret it every day. Its just money, but the level of frustration and wasted time is the biggest loss. Started the process for Lemon Law due to the infotainment issue, considering a Class Action suit, and even trying to find someone who will assume my lease.

Subaru looks good on paper but it really comes down to perception versus reality. Subaru of America has carefully groomed their image but the 2020 Outbacks are just a different shade of lipstick on the pig. Other than the huge issue I have with the infotainment/phone calling making it unusable for me, the other shortcomings of the vehicle are cumulative and are noticeably not at the price point Subaru is trying for. For an irrelevant increase in money, there are better options. If you do not believe me, more than happy to let you take over my lease. My loss is your gain.

These are the vehicles I would short list instead;

2020 Kia Telluride: 31,900 starting price. World Car of the Year 2020.

2020 Volvo XC40: 33,700. Purchased this for my wife on the same day as the 2020 Touring XT. Much more enjoyable to drive and has a usable infotainment system.

2020 Volvo XC60: 40,500

2020 MB GLC 300: 42,500

2020 Volvo Cross Country v60: 45,000

2020 Jaguar F-Pace: 45,200. World Car of the Year 2017.

2020 Volvo XC90: 48,350

2020 Land Rover Defender 110: 49,900

Check out my other detailed posts here; Thoughts on moving from 2017 3.6R Limited Edition to 2020 Onyx XT and Poll: So would you buy your outback again?
You have some interesting points, however your listed prices are miss leading. I config'ed a XC40 with a good level of equipment, it was $46K, XC60 was $55K. Good luck finding any Defender well equipped for less then $70K and sorry Range Rovers are not very reliable. I bought a 2019 3.6 Touring, mid thirties and love it, i came from a fully loaded Jeep Grand Cherokee with the hemi, great car as well. I liked the Volvos btw, but not for $10K and $20K more, Defender was not an option when I was buying.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
 
#12 ·
I must disagree that
the Volvo is a better car for 3-4 years.
because owner data collected by Consumer Reports says this XC90 has the lowest Overall Reliably rating possible. These data cover the entire first four years (2016-17-18-19) of this model's existence. Current model year is never published for obvious reasons. I grant that in decades past this low rating, typically given to Yugo or early Hyundai cars, was identifying much worse problems than today's vehicles. But back to the point, Volvo XC90 is not considered reliable by data used to publish by CR. In the overall ratings of brands Volvo is rated 22/33 while Subaru is rated 3/33 down from 2/33 last year.
 
#10 ·
I enjoy and appreciate @njoutbacknj's commentaries, but as others have pointed out the vehicles he is comparing to are generally a lot more expensive with less mpg, reliability I am not sure about. I did take a usb cord on my test drives and compared all of the Apple CarPlay features along with everything else before buying. The CarPlay limitations of the big screen were my biggest reservation before buying, but in the end did swap my 19 Outback for a 20 Outback.

After five months and 9000 miles we are still impressed with the 20 Outback, it is definitely a step up from the 19 Outback, but it's not perfect. As compared to the Volvo, you have to consider overall cost both in purchase price and long term. If you have the money then buy whatever you can afford and like. If you're old and practical like me then you set your sights appropriately. Personally I can't see spending more $$ to get less car, which is why our two most recent Outbacks have been Premium models. For the cost of the Onyx I would have bought an Ascent Premium or Odyssey EX because they are both more car for the $$. We wanted slightly smaller, great awd, great gas mileage. Averaging almost 31 measured at the pump after 9,000 miles I think we succeeded. Happy shopping.
 
#11 · (Edited)
I am puzzled by something that njoutbackn said in his post:

"The next day after picking up the Outback, I was back at Volvo test driving the CC V60 because the 2020 Outback 11" screen does not allow the operator to dial phone calls while in motion while using Bluetooth or Apple Car Play. This is not something that people check out on a test drive (bring a usb cable) plus the Volvo Apple Car Play experience does not restrict it. Assumed all Car Play is the same but it is not."

I make phone calls while "in motion", with either my iPhone connected via Bluetooth, or, with it connected via USB, and Apple CarPlay running. The screen display when making a non-CarPlay phone call (iPhone connected via Bluetooth) is different, compared to making a phone call from CarPlay, but both work just fine while driving. Maybe I'm just not understanding what njoutbackn was trying to say?

Later add: OK, now I get it. It is the use of the keypad that is blocked for Bluetooth-connected phones (for CarPlay, apparently that is something that can be enabled or disabled by the car manufacturer, and Subaru has also opted to disable it....). I guess I am always calling someone from my contact list or favorites list. Or using voice commands.... Thanks for clarifying, njoutbackn.

I also test drove a Volvo XC60 before buying my 2020 Outback Touring XT, and I've also owned a different Volvo model (a 2007 C70 retractable hardtop, owned from 2007 to 2018), so I was generally familiar with Volvo as a brand, and with our local Volvo dealer. (I also owned a 2010 Outback up until getting the 2020, so I can say the same thing about Subaru as a brand, and our local Subaru dealer.)

Actually, I view Volvo and Subaru as two companies with a lot of similarities - strong focus on safety, well-engineered vehicles, generally good "longevity", and both known also for some degree of "quirky" designs. (For example, Volvo's use in prior years of inline-5 cylinder engines, with and without turbo, and Subaru's focus on boxer engines.)

I liked the XC60 quite a bit. Very nice interior, although I don't really like the fact that the sun-shade underneath the big panoramic sunroof is "translucent", always letting in some light, and not opaque.... But, two things concerned me. One is that Volvos seem to require more non-trivial repairs along the way, beyond basic maintenance. And, the cost of repairs and service tends to be higher (European car-like), compared to Subaru and other Japanese brands. Not to mention the initial price being non-trivially higher. Basically both the initial cost, and the ongoing expenses, were going to be a fair amount higher for the Volvo.

I also liked the fact that the Outback is assembled in the US. My last Volvo was assembled in Sweden, with the only non-Swedish content being the Japanese-made auto transmission. I don't know where US-delivered Volvos are made now, with Chinese ownership of Volvo cars, but it may well be that most US-delivered cars are still made in Sweden, or in Volvo's factory in Belgium. In any case, outside of the US.

I liked our local Volvo dealership, although the fact that their service dept, wasn't open on Saturday made for a bit of inconvenience. But they did good work, and were honest, etc. Same goes for our local Subaru dealership, who offer Saturday hours.
 
#15 · (Edited)
I am puzzled by something that njoutbackn said in his post:

"The next day after picking up the Outback, I was back at Volvo test driving the CC V60 because the 2020 Outback 11" screen does not allow the operator to dial phone calls while in motion while using Bluetooth or Apple Car Play. This is not something that people check out on a test drive (bring a usb cable) plus the Volvo Apple Car Play experience does not restrict it. Assumed all Car Play is the same but it is not."

I make phone calls while "in motion", with either my iPhone connected via Bluetooth, or, with it connected via USB, and Apple CarPlay running. The screen display when making a non-CarPlay phone call (iPhone connected via Bluetooth) is different, compared to making a phone call from CarPlay, but both work just fine while driving. Maybe I'm just not understanding what njoutbackn was trying to say?
In a 2020 Outback Touring XT with the 11" screen, a call cannot be dialed using the large touchpad with the vehicle in motion if you are using Bluetooth or Apple Car Play. That restriction does not exist when using Android Auto. Subaru of America responded, "FOR SAFETY REASONS SUBARU OF AMERICA, INC HAS DISABLED THE SUE OF THE KEYPAY WHILE DRIVING IF USING BLUETOOTH. APPLE CARPLAY ALLOWS VEHICLE MANUFACTURERS TO CUSTOMIZE WHETHER OR NOT THE KEYPAD CAN BE ACCESSED WHILE THE CAR IS IN MOTION. BECAUSE SUBARU’S MAIN CONVERN IS SAFETY, WE CHOSE TO CUSTOMIZE APPLE CARPLAY TO MIMIC THE NON-USE OF THE KEYPAY, AS IT IS WHEN USING BLUETOOTH. ANDROID AUTO DOES NOT ALLOW VEHICLE MANUFACTURERES THE OPTION TO CUTOMIZE, WHICH IS WHY YOU CAN STILL ACCESS THE KEYPAD TO DIAG WHEN THE CAR IS IN MOTION." However, Android Auto does not allow such restrictions so it operates as expected. Does this mean Subaru cares less about Android users? Either way due to the inconsistent nature of the dial pad, that is no longer a safety "feature' but a software bug or errata. This is something that would have been impossible to research prior as it is not mentioned in any marketing material or any user manual. It could have been discovered had I brought a USB cable for the test drive but my only experience with Apple Car Play was with Volvo (completely unrestricted) and assumed it was a consistent experience for all Apple Car Play vehicles.

Per confidentiality agreements with clients, I am not able to sync contacts or use voice commands. This then forces me to dial calls using my iPhone. Switching to Android isn't an option due to additional security requirements preventing the use of that platform along with having a large collection of paid iTunes music and my entire family uses iMessage. However, when traveling in Massachusetts as I do for school and work, the state law prohibits touching the physical phone but it allows the use of the fixed touchscreen to dial a call.

At this point, it is just easier for me to unload the Outback as they are not budging on either removing the restriction so I have started Lemon Law and considering Class Action suit since there are a large number of people impacted in Massachusetts.

By the way, I very much agree about your comments comparing Subaru and Volvo. They are very similar including the fact they are both stand alone brands. Volvo has done us right across three vehicles in 3.5 years. Have zero issues with having my wife taking the Volvo to the shop as they are respectful and helpful. The local Subaru dealer service (have been through it twice already) is very close to a Pep Boys and my wife will be spared that experience.
 
#13 ·
I believe @njoutbacknj's biggest complaint is not being able to use the keypad on the touchscreen to place calls while driving, and he is right. In those rare occasions where I need to make a keypad entry, such as choosing option 2 during a call or whatever, I have to unlock the phone and use the keypad on the phone. My older 14 GMC has a keypad that pops up on the infotainment screen, much more convenient. Subaru's limitation does remind me to get off the phone while driving, which I think was their intention. I can live with it and it does help remind me to get off the phone. Five (?) years from now when cars are more autonomous in their driving we can use the phone more while on the road.
 
#14 ·
Apparently, other manufacturers' cars also show the same behavior when using Car play:


Android Auto allows you to dial numbers or enter DTMF codes while moving. Seems like an Apple thing rather than the car.
 
#17 ·
To put this gas mileage thing in perspective, driving 12k miles a year, the difference between the turbo and regular engine at current gas prices is under $150 a year.

For the power, acceleration, towing capacity, improved operation at altitude, and preference for lower running rpm resulting in more quiet operation, I'd take that exchange any day of the week. BTW, I fully expect my next gas fill to put me over the rated 26 mpg average based on in car being over 27.
 
#21 ·
At this point, it is just easier for me to unload the Outback as they are not budging on either removing the restriction so I have started Lemon Law and considering Class Action suit since there are a large number of people impacted in Massachusetts.

So, two of your solutions to the issue, based on the above situation is legal action bc Subaru wont change the system configuration bc you don’t like it? Or are you really doing this as a way to force them to release you from your lease? Seems to me you did not thoroughly research the cars capabilities to meet your working conditions. It stands to reason if you used a car in the manner you describe you would have made sure any new vehicle could do that task for you, especially if it was as important as client confidentiality.

Maybe I am missing something as i just dont get the reasoning on the legal front.
 
#22 ·
At this point, it is just easier for me to unload the Outback as they are not budging on either removing the restriction so I have started Lemon Law and considering Class Action suit since there are a large number of people impacted in Massachusetts.

So, two of your solutions to the issue, based on the above situation is legal action bc Subaru wont change the system configuration bc you don’t like it? Or are you really doing this as a way to force them to release you from your lease? Seems to me you did not thoroughly research the cars capabilities to meet your working conditions. It stands to reason if you used a car in the manner you describe you would have made sure any new vehicle could do that task for you, especially if it was as important as client confidentiality.

Maybe I am missing something as i just dont get the reasoning on the legal front.
What's done is done and I for one would be interested in seeing how things play out if they pursue legal action.
 
#24 ·
@njoutbacknj sorry but I think you’re going to lose. I just tried accessing the on screen keypad using both Bluetooth and Apple CarPlay and they both work perfectly provided the vehicle is stopped. Whether that’s a restriction from Apple or from Subaru, either way I think it’s great because it promotes safer driving. If it saves you, me, or somebody else from causing or being the victim of a car crash because the driver was looking at the keypad dialing a number while trying to drive down the road, then I personally think that’s a good move on the part of Apple and/or Subaru, and I suspect a jury or judge would feel the same way.

I remember using CarPlay in our 19 outback and being able to use the keypad on the screen to search for waypoints, but on our 20 it says keypad access is restricted while moving. There’s also been an iOS upgrade in the meantime as well, so again I don’t know if the restrictions are from Subaru or Apple, but either way it’s good. In the case of searching for waypoints, voice commands work great. I’m sorry you can’t use voice commands to make calls, but if you could I’m sure you would find that they work great as well. If Volvo or Jaguar or somebody else makes a car that’s not as restrictive or safe, then I can only hope they would get on board and follow Subaru and Apple’s lead. I’ll be surprised if Google and Android don’t join in as well. After all, is it really that inconvenient to pull over, dial your call, and then press on? If it is, then hire a driver so you can safely use your mobile office without the distraction of having to watch traffic on the road.

I know I was like you and upset when I discovered the 20 Outback was forcing me to be safer on the road, but then I realized it was a good thing. You liked everything else about the car or you wouldn’t have bought it in the first place, so hopefully you’ll change your thinking or just hire a driver. If not, then kudos to whoever is lucky enough to take over your lease. Be well.
 
#25 ·
Thank you. Was looking for documentation on Apple Car Play requirements and came across a Consumer Reports article that was very interesting. Not only does it reference the struggles with the 2020 Outback 11” screen, but their own research on the topic of touching a physical phone versus a fixed touch screen.

“A new settings app gives drivers some ability to customize what they see. This move might seem to increase driver distraction, but CR’s exclusive survey data show that drivers often pick up their phones when they can’t access a feature from the car’s dashboard. Offering more choices on a larger screen is less distracting than sending drivers to their phones, and it reflects the modern reality that drivers expect to be able to complete certain functions from behind the wheel.
“Drivers like the familiarity of using media and navigation apps from their phone instead of fumbling with the sometimes complex and unintuitive built-in systems,” Funkhouser says. “Using Android Auto or CarPlay is better than picking up your phone, so any way to make that easier and more appealing to drivers is always a good thing.” I added the bold for emphasis and I trust CR more than Subaru. Here is the link to the article; Android Auto and Apple CarPlay Updates Bring Major Changes

Going back to the original poster’s question about Volvo Cross Country V60 vs Outback, there was one more relevant point I thought about but ironically does not apply to the CC V60. The material on the seats of the R Design XC40/60/90 is a suede-like material similar to the Grand Cherokee Trailhawk. It’s great if you have dogs. Unfortunately it’s not available in the CC V60. Not a fan of the 2020 Outback Touring seat material, does not feel durable. Do not have any experience with the Onyx material, wondering if that is more durable. My favorite seat material is actually Mercedes MB Tex in black. Super durable in our prior Blutec.
 
#27 ·
I’ve now seen a few people claim that a bigger update is due in May. I think this is just wishful thinking. We’ve had rumors of updates due going back to December that we’re claiming a number of UI changes. All that has come to date is one update with no UI changes but some stability fixes. I wouldn’t bank on getting any UI changes but would love to be wrong.
 
#29 · (Edited)
I was talking about Subaru updates. Apple regularly updates CarPlay and is far ahead in what it provides as opposed to what Subaru choose to support: center and console screens, modal full screen views, full screen (including portrait) normal icon view.... all this support was added in OS13 but the manufacturers have to add/change code to support it for their system.
 
#37 ·
@seinberg @Rsonnens I am curious on what the behavior would be with the 2020 11” infotainment and a Project Sandcastle iPhone 7. While it is not realistic for me to operate it like this due to explicit controls preventing jail broken devices, it just further puts into question Subaru’s overreach pretending to be safety features are specific only to a singular mobile phone brand.
 
#50 ·
Seems to me the fault lies in the stupid privacy clause that says I can conduct extremely sensitive client dealings over the speaker system in my car but can't say, "call Barry" over the same system to initiate. Subaru is supposed to come up with a workaround for that idiocy? Please.

They already gave you the safest option that adheres to all laws, no screen use required. It's the stupid inconsistent privacy policy that's the real issue. Seriously, in what world does that even make sense?
 
#55 ·
Yes, voice dial by saying the number, just pull over and stop and dial the number because the keypad works on the screen if you're stopped (this works, I've tried it, much safer than doing it going down the road), or just hire a driver so you don't have the distraction of dealing with traffic while talking on the phone. Subaru's safety was the biggest thing that brought us over from 20 years of Hondas, as the newest Hondas reserve some of their best safety features for only their highest trim levels. With Subaru we got all the safety on the Premium level, and we're liking it a lot.