This is my last Subaru.

A couple of week ago, I got my auto insurance renewal and found that it abruptly (compared to previous years' nominal increases) increased by 25%.
Today, I read an article* in the New York Times describing how a "self-described careful driver" experienced the same sort of abrupt increase - and when he tried to change insurance companies, he found that many wouldn't even accept him.
[ * Automakers Are Sharing Consumers' Driving Behavior With Insurance Companies, Mar 11 '24, New York Times. I would give you a link but I think you need to be a NYT subcriber to use it, so go to the NYT website and do a search by the title.]

He discovered that his car had been secretly sending reports about his driving (speeding, hard braking, sharp accelerations, etc.) to his car's manufacturer who in turn sent these reports to insurance data clearinghouses (LexisNexis and Verisk), who then passed this information, called Telematics Risks or Telematics Exchange, on to many insurance companies. When he requested what information LexisNexis had on him using the Fair Credit Reporting Act, he got back "a 258-page "consumer disclosure report" describing his driving over the past six months, covering 640 trips, start and end times and distances and indications of any speeding, hard braking or sharp accelerations."

It turns out, according to the investigative reporter who did this article, that car manufacturers are allowed to pass on this information as part of the optional in-car communication features such as, for G.M. for example, "On Star" such as remote unlocking your car, calling for help in a crash, etc., or tracking a car's location (for those who watch "The FBI" on TV )

To be fair, according to the writer who wrote the article, Subaru doesn't give as much driving detail as the aforementioned case (which was for a G.M. car), and for other cars (e.g., Honda & Acura, Kia, Hyundai, Ford, Mitsubishi). Subaru "shares odometer data with LexisNexis", but frankly I'm not sure what that entails.

To me, its one thing to remind me when I have to change my oil (not knowing that I do that myself) or rotate my tires, but it's quite another thing to invade my privacy and secretly tell my insurance companies when and where and how I drive.

The article provided a website where you can request your own Consumer Disclosure Reports. From LexisNexis:

LexisNexis Consumer Disclosure - LexisNexis Risk Solutions Consumer Disclosure

consumer.risk.lexisnexis.com

From Verisk:

FCRA

 

This is my last Subaru.

A couple of week ago, I got my auto insurance renewal and found that it abruptly (compared to previous years' nominal increases) increased by 25%.
Today, I read an article* in the New York Times describing how a "self-described careful driver" experienced the same sort of abrupt increase - and when he tried to change insurance companies, he found that many wouldn't even accept him.
[ * Automakers Are Sharing Consumers' Driving Behavior With Insurance Companies, Mar 11 '24, New York Times. I would give you a link but I think you need to be a NYT subcriber to use it, so go to the NYT website and do a search by the title.]

He discovered that his car had been secretly sending reports about his driving (speeding, hard braking, sharp accelerations, etc.) to his car's manufacturer who in turn sent these reports to insurance data clearinghouses (LexisNexis and Verisk), who then passed this information, called Telematics Risks or Telematics Exchange, on to many insurance companies. When he requested what information LexisNexis had on him using the Fair Credit Reporting Act, he got back "a 258-page "consumer disclosure report" describing his driving over the past six months, covering 640 trips, start and end times and distances and indications of any speeding, hard braking or sharp accelerations."

It turns out, according to the investigative reporter who did this article, that car manufacturers are allowed to pass on this information as part of the optional in-car communication features such as, for G.M. for example, "On Star" such as remote unlocking your car, calling for help in a crash, etc., or tracking a car's location (for those who watch "The FBI" on TV )

To be fair, according to the writer who wrote the article, Subaru doesn't give as much driving detail as the aforementioned case (which was for a G.M. car), and for other cars (e.g., Honda & Acura, Kia, Hyundai, Ford, Mitsubishi). Subaru "shares odometer data with LexisNexis", but frankly I'm not sure what that entails.

To me, its one thing to remind me when I have to change my oil (not knowing that I do that myself) or rotate my tires, but it's quite another thing to invade my privacy and secretly tell my insurance companies when and where and how I drive.

The article provided a website where you can request your own Consumer Disclosure Reports. From LexisNexis:

LexisNexis Consumer Disclosure - LexisNexis Risk Solutions Consumer Disclosure

consumer.risk.lexisnexis.com

From Verisk:

FCRA

Try a bike or continue to believe this isn't happening industry.
I hope you see the irony of saying you won't buy another Subaru when your own source indicated they probably share the least amount of info.

 

We have older Subarus so we don’t have starlink or anything but I know if we take ours for emissions here the insurance company has our mileage after that. That’s the state doing it not Subaru. I also know a lot of shops that input the data so that the carfax reports have the info your insurance company can also get mileage off those too.

 

Well…that’s a total invasion of our privacy. This is for the USA…was there any indication about info from Canadians?

 

Hasn’t this been a thing since like 2010 with every car manufacturer ever?

 

Meh.
In other threads we have drivers VOLUNTARILY giving their driving behavior data directly to insurance companies.

 

Invasion of your privacy? How about the insurance company's right to accurate information with which to base their pricing? For those that feel like this is an invasion of privacy, how about learning how to drive safely... your premiums will not be adversely impacted and the rest of us will be safer.

 

How about the insurance company's right to accurate information with which to base their pricing?

Bit of a stretch to call that a "right"

 

Not sure what all they send. There was a thread a while back with links to Subaru’s website to opt out of stuff. I did that - took a while, but eventually got a letter in the mail that it was completed.

Consumer Privacy Rights | Subaru

Rights given by the California Privacy Rights Act & Virginia Consumer Data Protection Act are extended to all Subaru U.S. customers. Exercise those rights here.

www.subaru.com

also disconnected the DCM a while back - mainly because I’ll never use it, and even though it only draws down the battery for a short time at ignition off, anything is too much for something I’ll never use. Side benefit - DCM is not even connected.

never tried requeating the report linked in the article - to see what information is out there now - that might give you an idea of what is being collected and reported to places like that.

 

Duplicate threads merged.

 

Funniest part about this is people complaining about this while carrying a smart phone.

 

That's right....or how about banks looking into your credit history before pricing/approving a loan. Another invasion of privacy?

 

Insurance companies and car companies exist for only one reason: to take our money. If you think your insurance agent or your car salesman cares about you, you're very naive.

Insurance company lobbyists decades ago bought off the politicians and got laws passed mandating that we buy a product most of us have never used. Car manufacturers steal our information and use it against us.

What a group - car companies, insurance companies, politicians and lobbyists - not a scruple among them.

 

Lots of "snarky" (not necessarily a bad thing) remarks comparing this issue to (1) taking out a bank loan, or (2) suggesting we all ride bicycles (or horse carts ?).

But regarding this issue, as I see it, of "failure to disclose how the insurance companies are spying on us or our driving habits" and determining our premiums accordingly, suppose I submit an equivalent but different hypothetical situation:

It's even been argued that insurance companies "have a right" to determine how we operate our cars, even if the information is collected secretly. So, for your consideration:
Suppose insurance companies hire private detectives to secretly invade our homes (forgetting breaking and entering laws for the sake of argument) to look for our guns (long rifles, handguns, etc.) and see how they are stored/locked up -- and then determining our home and/or umbrella insurance premiums based on this information based on how we might be sued for an accident involving use of a firearm (by a child, or a negligent home/gun owner). Note that we aren't informed that the insurance company has acquired this information.

Any comments? Do insurance companies have a right to an inventory of our gun collections? Anyone see a parallel between secretly collecting our driving habits' data, and secretly collecting information on how many, what kind, and are they legally registered, guns that we have in our homes (which has home and umbrella insurance) and how they are stored and locked?

The issue, as I see it, is secrecy. Not necessarily what data is collected, but how it is, and whether we are told. In the original NYT article, a law professor thought that we should all know that our driving habits are being monitored, so that we will all drive more cautiously -- which benefits the public as well as the insurers. But he was troubled that the data collected was done secretly, so there was no public benefit (no one would be driving "safer", as he called it), and the only benefit was to the insurance company's bottom line.

 

What secret? Users agreed to the sharing of information when they signed up for onstar or any of the other driver monitoring services....problem is that most folks simply don't read what they sign!

 

My insurance payment is due this month and it looks like my times over 100MPH didn't affect the price that I'm paying.

 

What YeuEmMaiMai said. . . .the costs of everything are up over the board - - vehicle purchase prices, parts, and supply chain woes. Most insurers have raised or are going to raise rates an average of 20 - 25%.

 

If trying to avoid a manufacturer that does this then one pretty much can't buy a new car.

There are threads on disconnecting the system as well. Nothing illegal about modifying your own vehicle.

 

If trying to avoid a manufacturer that does this then one pretty much can't buy a new car.

There are threads on disconnecting the system as well. Nothing illegal about modifying your own vehicle.

Yup, not only is it not illegal, but it solves some of the battery drain issues if you have a car trying to connect to the 3g network that isnt there anymore...
For a 2015-2019 its pretty simple. basically you just need to unplug the modem unit, and jumper across some pins. There is only one exception and that is the 5v power for the bluetooth microphone. that needs a jumper wire to the back of the headunit (pin is already there)

So you replace the unit with something like this. I made this for myself, they're not for sale or anything. All the info on how to do it is on here.
I just plug it in place of one of the plugs, and then take that pin and stick it in a connector for the headunit, and its done. (well obviously after the work of removing the radio to get there)

 

Don't forget to fill out a privacy request with Subaru if you're in one of the states that has laws protecting its citizens from private data disclosure:

Consumer Privacy Rights | Subaru

Rights given by the California Privacy Rights Act & Virginia Consumer Data Protection Act are extended to all Subaru U.S. customers. Exercise those rights here.

www.subaru.com

The California Privacy Rights Act, Colorado Privacy Act, Connecticut Data Privacy Act, Utah Consumer Privacy Act, and Virginia Consumer Data Protection Act provide consumers who are residents of these states with certain privacy rights.

 

I ignored all of the Starlink stuff and did not sign up for it. I never regretted it, but this make me even happier with my decision. I never had a dead battery either. How hard I press the accelerator is nobody's business.

 

Car is still narcing on the driving. It just takes the 3rd party data aggregator to tie you with it instead of Subaru.

 

I read the Mozilla report on Subaru and did a CCPA OPT-OUT and DELETE request. They were slow to respond requiring several follow ups and eventually I assured them, I will never buy another Subaru vehicle, so they shouldn't be concerned with needing any data on me. I received back the same kind of compliance report that others have posted on here. Now comes the real question. If you DELETEd your data from Subaru, does it continue automatic collection anyway? Do you have to continue to DELETE your data? How often should you do it?

When my Starlink subscription came up for renewal, intentionally did not give them the updated card number (so no more remote start, ineffective anti-theft or bitching about low windshield wiper fluid at midnight on my Watch) and sent them an email disputing the invoice for the renewal along with a second DELETE request and asked them to confirm that they are no longer monitoring the vehicle (now, at their expense, not mine); also disconnected the SiriusXM (and I now use FM and FM-HD channels or my smartphone). That said, Subaru did not respond to my email, not even that they have begun the second OPT-OUT and DELETE request. I'm sure part of it is that their agents may not know the answer to that question --yet. If/when I get a response confirming I'm out for good, I will delete my mySubaru account.

In light of today's NYT article, I will also be pulling these obscure consumer reports and dispute all the information since it can't be tied to any specific driver of the vehicle. (I at least do disable the Driver Monitoring System and to the extent that it was active because it is so bad at recognizing the driver, it is always the Default profile.) My insurance carrier is AAA and my 2024 rates increased by about 25% "because of miles driven." I had read an article that indicated the average selling price of cars had climbed to around $50K and the replacement parts for all the accidents were driving rates up and I supplied my odometer reading to AAA, so I had accepted that as the explanation. However, the agent speculated that the miles driven had increased for 2023 over 2022 because of the end of COVID, never went back and checked what my odometer was for the prior year (if there had even been an increase), but now realize that increase doesn't make any sense...have not Returned To Office and Lockdown ended mid-2021, so all of 2022 should be more or less about the same as all of 2023, right?!

The local dealers also report to CarFax, including the one that took one of my free oil changes and didn't change the oil because the specs were every 6,000 miles and I demanded an oil change at 3,500 they deemed unnecessary (first off, they're wrong --the manual says 3,500 for high impact drivers and secondly, they're wrong because it was a first generation of the 2.4T and should be checked for manufacturing debris). It is obviously in their interest to lie on your CarFax on the theory that it lowers the value of your car when you come back like a puppy dog to trade it in on a new one. One must also OPT-OUT and DELETE your data from the car dealers, but of course, the car dealers will Thank You and not do anything because they have been sued exactly zero times for ignoring such request and their people from the top down are BS artists who will say anything have have no time for anything that doesn't help them make their numbers. (There is a CCPA enforcement request form on California Attorney General Bonta's website though.)

Finally, to those saying that ANYONE ever expected this level of complete horseshit, you're kidding yourself and if you are talking down to other users for not "reading the fine print", know that nobody can trust you because you obviously work for the Industry or Regulators.

https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/privacynotincluded/subaru/

PS: There are other non-Subaru options, such as disabling the telematics (as long as it remains legal), Uber+rental vehicles and buying older vehicles without telematics. There will be legislation soon too and while they will be requiring more aggressive speed regulators, they will also be banning these practices, but even then, I still will not ever again buy a Subaru for having betrayed the trust like this.

Our family has had these Subarus, only the 2021, 2020 and 1994 are still in service:
2021 CrossTrek Premier, 2020 Gen6 OB XT Touring, 1997 and 1995 Legacy OB, 1994 SVX LS, 1986 XT6, 1984 TurboXT, 1977 Brat, 1974 GL16

 

Ahh the old you don't agree with ME so you must work for THEM argument- well played- no possible response to that.

 

Fixed link: Mozilla Foundation on Subaru: Privacy Not Included

 

Has anyone else notice that the speed limits their car shows don’t match up with the posted speed limit? In at least 2 places where I regularly drive the car shows a limit 15 mph under the posted speed, thus it will report that I’m speeding when I am not. I don’t have the starlink thing though.

 

This might work :-0
Bypass the Subaru Starlink Tracking & Front Speaker fix (autoharnesshouse.com)

Folks who mentioned your phone spying on you are correct.

 

It’s interesting they’ve now added a chassis ground wire to that harness.

 

Does anyone have any experience with exactly what Subaru shares and does it get used against us by the insurance companies?

It would be nice to know. I am less concerned about them doing it than I am them not being forthcoming in disclosures, I should get something from my insurance carrier . . . "we routinely monitor driving habit, trends and mileage to aid us in deterring your insurance rates."

He discovered that his car had been secretly sending reports about his driving (speeding, hard braking, sharp accelerations, etc.) to his car's manufacturer who in turn sent these reports to insurance data clearinghouses (LexisNexis and Verisk),

I'm not sure it's secret . . . . it may be like those Samsung (we can monitor the audio from your blog ol flat screen if the tv is on or off.

(Note: I heard that, it may not be true)

Kind of a shame about all of these data invasions.

 

State Farm Insurance already has a driver "tattletale" system in place which, if used "correctly", can assist in lowering one's rates. It's called "Drive Safe and Save" and uses a small Bluetooth dongle to communicate with your phone. You do have the choice not to install one, but I did, and it has recorded my driving habits. Supposedly, my rates are lower because I don't tend to accelerate hard unless I have to. The dongle's accelerometer does seem to overreport my braking and score me down a bit - - there is no way for the dongle to distinguish emergency braking with hard braking for no reason. Anyway, to each his/her own, I suppose. . .

 

At one point the data collected from state farm was also being used for other driver research, but when that research started to point out that no driver scored "completely safe" and that often many didn't really get a discount, that research stopped for some reason.
It was a college doing it, and one of the students spoke out about it. I'll see if I can dig it up.

 

Even if someone did read the fine print, it's not written in a way that makes it clear exactly what data are gathered or how it is used.

Phrases like "Data are collected to improve your experience" means nothing. It's PR doublespeak vetted by lawyers so that it's not criminally wrong. Frankly, much of the fine print is deceptive in the big picture. The people writing these things knows that less than one percent of people read the entire thing and even those folks cannot know exactly how the data are gathered and how it's used. Reading the fine print is still a good idea, but it won't tell you what you need to do to make an actual informed choice. It's virtually sleight of hand and misdirection.

Ultimately the goal for all of this data collection is to monetize it somehow. AI is being used to wholesale deny health insurance claims without anyone looking at it. Do the people who are insured know this? Is it actually disclosed? I think not.

Lawsuits take aim at use of AI tool by health insurance companies to process claims

Class-action suits allege faulty algorithms are behind rise in wrongful rejections of necessary care for elderly beneficiaries.

www.cbsnews.com

 

71% of drivers consider buying older cars due to data privacy concerns

Data privacy within the automotive industry was analyzed in a report, finding that 72% of drivers are uncomfortable automakers sharing their data.

www.securitymagazine.com