Off the top of my head I'd say the torque converter wasn't fully seated.

 

thats a pricey mistake.

 

only if you're not very good or resourceful, i've repaired it before.

It likely happened from someone removing the engine/trans before (not necessarily you) - they tried removing it without all the bolts having been removed or were banging/prying significantly for some reason. if it didn't break during that episode it fatigued it enough to happen now.

You can essentially reattach the broken off piece. Post a picture and maybe I can be more specific.

You have two options:

1. Weld it back together. If you can't, have someone who can. A machine shop would easily pull this off. Note the prep work you'll likely need I'll talk about in a minute.

2. Or create your own repair - bolting/screwing a bracket, something to hold it in place. i would not personally use JB weld. This is what I've done before.

As long as it's held in place and wedged in there when you bolt it together you're fine, it's not a moving part and rather benign really.

One key note: The ones I've seen, the material will have structurally yielded some right where the break occurred and so it won't go back together perfectly. With some close file work where it's high/yielded it'll widdle down and lay right back in place just fine.

You don't say a year or model but it sounds like it's an 8 bolt bell housing and not the earlier 4 bolt housing?

The older bellhousings only had 4 bolts holding them together so if you lost three in an 8 bolt bellhousing you still have 5, more than they used to have, just roll with it! LOL

 

Should only be about thirty bucks and a lot off work at the junkyard...I can just swap the bell housing and not the whole tranny correct?

 

i would devise some kind of repair and not swap the front case, but if you're wanting to go that route:

Should only be about thirty bucks and a lot off work at the junkyard.

buy one from someone on here. we have transmissions laying around anyway. post in the parts wanted forum of this website and Ultimate Subaru Message Board. someone will definitely have one. i do, but i don't know what state you're in or how quickly you need it.

I can just swap the bell housing and not the whole tranny correct?

The bellhousing can be swapped but it's a precarious task.

The front diff is housed in there and disassembly affects the ring and pinion backlash and bearing preload. if they aren't set right your front diff or bearings will fail.

if anything in the front case affects those items = they'll need to be properly reset instead of retained which is not something 99% of people are capable, set up for, or want to risk on a first time attempt.

removing the side ring retainers requires marking them and counting the number of turns to retain the bearing preload.

What i'm not sure of - if you're only swapping the front housing alone - i don't know if you'd want the bearings/retainers from the donor trans or the bearings/retainers from the original.

It seems like you would keep the original everythign and only swap the bellhousing and hope that the front cases were not substantially different enough to affect the bearing pre-load or ring and pinion backlash. i'm unsure how much of a gamble that is.

 

That sucks. Is it a auto or manual tranny? I've only had issues with auto trany's I've had to spin the torque converter while having someone push forward on the trans and then it will slip in place easy.

 

Find another transmission.

Even if you think you can get by with "repairing" the bell housing, you still have the oil pump to worry about. How long before the transmission burns up, who knows.

 

I don't really want/have the option of dropping the money to get a new transmission...I mean if I could I may go that route but that's just not an option.
Its a 99 2.5 DOHC engine. Just wondering if I were to get it repaired then I would either have to pull the tranny or pull of the bell housing which would be basically the same process as getting a new bell housing right? Except that a new one would involve more unknowns with having an unoriginal part but it would also be cheaper than the repair.
grossgary--It is an eight bolt and all four on one side are no longer functional. I'll get a picture tonight and put it up so you can actually see what I'm working with. As far as getting one off of here I live in Denver, Colorado and am looking to get it in the next week since not having my car means I have been biking to work. What would be the pro of getting one on here just not having to do all the work of pulling one at "you pull and pay"?

 

if this is an automatic trans, then the torque converter was separated improperly from the flexplate, and on install, it wasn't in the correct detent. Thus, the pressure of bolting the 2 together LIKELY fubared the trans pump, and you will need a new trans.

 

make sure you note the guide pins when you do put this back together. you don't want both pins on the same side.

 

And do not put any bolts in until the engine and trans are smack together. There is never a need to pull the two together with the bolts. Not even on a manual.

 

is the trans still in the car and usable? if cost is an issue then maybe you could just cut the Duty C solenoid wire, disconnect the front axles and run it FWD until you have a better grip on how to move forward without this being such a debacle/pinch for you?

Car-Part.com--Used Auto Parts Market for a used trans

on to the front diff/housing.....

a used one is fine, i just mentioned options not knowing where you're located. i have an 8bolt housing but i'm not shipping it.

special tools not exactly required depending how you do it - but if it's not done such that the bearing preload and backlash of the gear teeth isn't retained - then your front diff is going to catastrophically fail with 100% certainty.

to set the backlash and preload is a bear of a job and does require a dial gauge and knowing how to use it.

i'm not sure if installing *ONLY* the front diff casing will retain those settings - the bearing preload is set by the side retaining rings - so you'll either be installing:

1. original retainers onto the donor differential
or
2. using the donor retainers which were set for a different set of bearings/front ring and pinion set.

then there's backlash too....i would not do either of those two options myself, sounds like a recipe for disaster.

you'd want someone very familiar with setting up those front diffs to comment on what combinations of parts to use. this isn't as simple as just swapping the trans case - critical elements are affected.

the way i would do it would be to swap the entire front diff then one can attempt to retain those crucial settings as they were set from the factory. but that will likely cost more and you're probably better off with an entire used trans.

unless you talk to someone who's done something else before it is best to swap the entire front diff - case, ring and pinion, side retaininers, any other bits/shims/bearings. mixing and matching is going to make it impossible to retain the original backlash and preload - unless you're banking on them being 'so close it doesn't matter' - and i wouldn't make that assumption on such a huge and expensive job without talking to someone who knows them very well.

i've repaired broken bellhousings in the vehicle before so you'd save all that work. with the engine out, it's not that difficult. post a picture of it.

i guess i missed the part about the oil pump - is it cracked or something? if it is compromised then yeah you need a new trans or split the case and replace the oil pump too.

 

Sorry I totally forgot about the picture. Here it is...I haven't managed to seperate the engine from the transmission since the whole mishap which is why it's still in there.

 

I'd fix that. Save the junk yard trip. I've done it before and in some ways it really is a rather benign part. Fixed in place, it's never going anywhere and doesn't do much so long as it can carry/distribute the load properly. Which it will if it's properly attached. Bolted/welded in place, it's not moving. Get it flush for engine mating and you're done. Easy.

Put the piece back in place and weld it or use fasteners or both. I wouldn't even remove the trans but with the engine out it's not much more work and you'd have better access and that would probably be best for most people.

Preferably it's welded but it could be done purely with fasteners.

Review my notes in a prior reply on this thread regarding filing/grinding due to localized metal yielding.

Get it fastened in place, make sure the mating surface is flat and you're golden.

 

Around page 100-120 is where setting up the front diff is if you want to check it out:
http://ken-gilbert.com/wrx/04impreza/imp04_trans_4-3.pdf

 

So I'm just curious if welding isn't an option what would you suggest? I know you said bolts/fasteners of some sort? How exactly have you done this and made it work properly?

 

Since i'm the outlier I googled it - "weld bellhousing" and it's quite common. found lots of "i've got XYZ miles on it since then" remarks.


Take it to a welder or machine shop. It's just aluminum and cake walk for anyone that welds. Ask around - friends, shops, mechanics, for a good welder. Since you seem uncomfortable (and most people would and should) doing it yourself, I'd have a machine shop do it.

I freaked out for a minute the first time i saw it and thought I had a swap on my hands...then realized this is simplistic and repaired it. as a graduate of the #2 aerospace engineering school in the country and having built stuff for NASA birds flying around right now, i get technical, failure modes, fatigue, clean room ops for half a billion dollar vehicles that run 10 years with zero maintenance/repair at 20,000 mph. this is not that complicated, quite simple from a materials engineering stand point.

have a shop do it - $40 - $100 and you're done. i've had shops do some very creative repairs on blocks and heads that had chunks out of them and bad situations, machine shops do this stuff every day, not a big deal to them.

i would recommend not repairing if it has multiple cracks all through it, but this doesn't appear to be that way. looks like one large clean break.

 

Thank you for taking all the time to reply and explain this to me!

 

there is a reason they add dowel pins on the side of the case….there is a LOT of torque and twisting between the engine case half and the trans case half. the bolts alone allow some movement and flex to a degree, and those dowel pins make them more rigid.
I would not even consider the repair on this.
- a shoddy repair could damage the crankshaft when it "walks" or cause bearing wearing prematurely to the crankshaft, and it also could cause some issues with flexplate warping or cracking, and or the flywheel comonig apart. Those parts rotate at 4000 revolutions per minute, it is serious.
the advice to repair is seriously bad advice.

but, then some on here would weld together a broken connecting rod and call it good…heck for all I know, nascar and NHRA may allow welding repair of a bell housing, but my intelligence says no way on it.

 

What would be an estimate on how long it would take to pull and replace a transmission? Is it relatively easy if the engine is pulled?

 

One, that bell housing is scrap. Forget the fix. Even if you drove like an old lady on weed, you'd break it again.

Two, takes about 3 hours on a lift, 4-5 on the ground to swap. You don't have to remove the engine. Empty the trans and drop it out the bottom.

Three, you still have the issue with the condition of the pump if the shaft was forced in when you bolted the transmission together with the engine.

Swap the trans. Quick, easy and less issues to worry about.

 

The engine is basically out already. will it be easier to pull from the top vs dropping the transmission since the engine is already out? And on a transmission swap is it basically just unbolt and pull the old one then replace the new one and bolt it in. what I'm asking is are there gaskets or anything besides just bolting the new one in I will have to deal with? I'm obviously going to read up on the whole process but I would like a concrete answer from someone on here instead of me thinking I don't need anything then realizing I have to wait on ordering parts.

 

The only seal you should need to replace on the replacement Trans is the rear output seal.

New differential and Trans fluid is a gimme. Put in a new filter before or directly after installing it. Get the filter from Subaru.

 

what if he smasheddddd the atf pump? which is probably why this is cracked anyway. It probably cracked the pump internally just the same

but if the pump didn't get smooshed, google says okay to weld, but make sure done by a pro. might cost more than you think to weld though, maybe more than a trans.

 

what if he smasheddddd the atf pump? which is probably why this is cracked anyway.

indeed, i caveated and agreed with previous comments on that.

*** Is there a way to determine if the pump is cracked? that's the simple question then? does anyone know?

"what if's" are limited in scope and could be applied to all sorts of repairs....you'd have to throw away every overheated EJ25 based on "what ifs?" about #4 rod bearings. You could also "what if" every rebuilt wrecked car you and I have repaired - we don't do either of those things. Good assessment is required. Here's a good approach that we can probably refine a bit with our collective experience:

There are quite a few reasons to guess the pump is fine:
1. he said the engine and trans weren't touching when it broke. that doesn't guarantee anything by itself i know, but it's a good sign because people do wrench them together.
2. people break atf pumps all the time and bellhousings never break.
3. bellhousings do break (i've repaired them) without any TC or pump issues.

Those are significant indicators that there is hope, so let's continue the assessment with something statistically relevant and verifiable:

1. is the torque converter fully seated now?
2. was it when the break occured? in other words - has it changed since then or remains in the same position?

google says okay to weld, but make sure done by a pro. might cost more than you think to weld though, maybe more than a trans.

welders charge $45 - $80 per hour. local markets will vary but i would expect to pay $80, having done this kind of stuff multiple times.

there are no pull-it-yourself yards worth going to around here so his local market will dictate some of this too. time is money so i'd prefer avoiding the bellhousing swap - that's 10 hours working in a pull it yourself yard and then reassembling later.

i know local places well enough i've never had to search but you can call and ask their rates or even check out a welding forum to find someone local possibly:
WeldingWeb™ - Welding forum for pros and enthusiasts

 

Last time I had something cast aluminum welded back together, it was a Miata rear diff housing and it cost $150. . . Welding plate/billet aluminum is pretty easy compared to welding cast as it's tough to get cast aluminum clean enough to weld it back together.

Can be done, just takes a lot of prep work, and preheating, etc.

. . .and your pump may still be börked.

 

So to start the torque converter is definitely not seated correctly...at least thats my guess since I spent an hour trying the pull the engine back out and can't seem to get it. The mating surface of engine to bell housing is about a two inch gap. Anyone have any ideas as to why it seems to be stuck and what I could do to get it out without harming the engine? Im leaning towards just pulling a full tranny at the junkyard since it's only $100 and money is really tight. I know it will be a lot of work and not a guarantee of it's condition but I just can't spend $400+ on a used one that is known to work. As far as getting the current bellhousing welded that just wouldn't make sense to me to take out the whole tranny and pay at least probably $80-$100 when I can just go get a whole tranny. I would really rather not worry about that part...even if it does carry a minuscule load it would always be in the back of my head and I don't want that.

 

In the pic you posted, its obvious the TC is not seated and a high likelihood that the shaft damaged the pump.

As to what may be holding the eingine in, is it lifted off the crossmember? All the bolts out and the two lower nuts removed?

 

^
I think he left the torque converter attached to the flexplate…. I think i asked this before or it was noted by someone else. THAT is the Big……. NO-NO

He hasn't posted a location either, if it was someone within a hundred miles, i would lend a helping free hand to guide the mechanically inclined to do it right...

 

Think he said Denver. . . which made 'doc's "drive it like an old lady on weed" comment a gem that I didn't notice until the 4th reread.

joke grenade right there.

I am curious about whether or not the flexplate was still attached to the converter during reassembly. . . man that would suck.

 

Think he said Denver. . . which made 'doc's "drive it like an old lady on weed" comment a gem that I didn't notice until the 4th reread.

joke grenade right there.

At least someone got it.