So I did the HG repair and was dropping the engine back in...about an hour from being done with this **** repair when my brother and I were tightening the Tranny to Engine bolts and there is a really loud noise. I come out from under the car and see that the tranny bell housing completely broke of where three of the bolts mount into. Is there something we did wrong? We really werent cranking down on any of the bolts super hard or anything. and it was about 1/16 of an inch from being flush to the engine mating surface. Any ideas what went wrong?
Broken Tranny Bell Housing
Martyrsmettle
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there is a reason they add dowel pins on the side of the case….there is a LOT of torque and twisting between the engine case half and the trans case half. the bolts alone allow some movement and flex to a degree, and those dowel pins make them more rigid.
I would not even consider the repair on this.
- a shoddy repair could damage the crankshaft when it "walks" or cause bearing wearing prematurely to the crankshaft, and it also could cause some issues with flexplate warping or cracking, and or the flywheel comonig apart. Those parts rotate at 4000 revolutions per minute, it is serious.
the advice to repair is seriously bad advice.
but, then some on here would weld together a broken connecting rod and call it good…heck for all I know, nascar and NHRA may allow welding repair of a bell housing, but my intelligence says no way on it.
I would not even consider the repair on this.
- a shoddy repair could damage the crankshaft when it "walks" or cause bearing wearing prematurely to the crankshaft, and it also could cause some issues with flexplate warping or cracking, and or the flywheel comonig apart. Those parts rotate at 4000 revolutions per minute, it is serious.
the advice to repair is seriously bad advice.
but, then some on here would weld together a broken connecting rod and call it good…heck for all I know, nascar and NHRA may allow welding repair of a bell housing, but my intelligence says no way on it.
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What would be an estimate on how long it would take to pull and replace a transmission? Is it relatively easy if the engine is pulled?
One, that bell housing is scrap. Forget the fix. Even if you drove like an old lady on weed, you'd break it again.
Two, takes about 3 hours on a lift, 4-5 on the ground to swap. You don't have to remove the engine. Empty the trans and drop it out the bottom.
Three, you still have the issue with the condition of the pump if the shaft was forced in when you bolted the transmission together with the engine.
Swap the trans. Quick, easy and less issues to worry about.
Two, takes about 3 hours on a lift, 4-5 on the ground to swap. You don't have to remove the engine. Empty the trans and drop it out the bottom.
Three, you still have the issue with the condition of the pump if the shaft was forced in when you bolted the transmission together with the engine.
Swap the trans. Quick, easy and less issues to worry about.
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The engine is basically out already. will it be easier to pull from the top vs dropping the transmission since the engine is already out? And on a transmission swap is it basically just unbolt and pull the old one then replace the new one and bolt it in. what I'm asking is are there gaskets or anything besides just bolting the new one in I will have to deal with? I'm obviously going to read up on the whole process but I would like a concrete answer from someone on here instead of me thinking I don't need anything then realizing I have to wait on ordering parts.
The only seal you should need to replace on the replacement Trans is the rear output seal.
New differential and Trans fluid is a gimme. Put in a new filter before or directly after installing it. Get the filter from Subaru.
New differential and Trans fluid is a gimme. Put in a new filter before or directly after installing it. Get the filter from Subaru.
Since i'm the outlier I googled it - "weld bellhousing" and it's quite common. found lots of "i've got XYZ miles on it since then" remarks.
I freaked out for a minute the first time i saw it and thought I had a swap on my hands...then realized this is simplistic and repaired it. as a graduate of the #2 aerospace engineering school in the country and having built stuff for NASA birds flying around right now, i get technical, failure modes, fatigue, clean room ops for half a billion dollar vehicles that run 10 years with zero maintenance/repair at 20,000 mph. this is not that complicated, quite simple from a materials engineering stand point.
have a shop do it - $40 - $100 and you're done. i've had shops do some very creative repairs on blocks and heads that had chunks out of them and bad situations, machine shops do this stuff every day, not a big deal to them.
i would recommend not repairing if it has multiple cracks all through it, but this doesn't appear to be that way. looks like one large clean break.
Take it to a welder or machine shop. It's just aluminum and cake walk for anyone that welds. Ask around - friends, shops, mechanics, for a good welder. Since you seem uncomfortable (and most people would and should) doing it yourself, I'd have a machine shop do it.
I freaked out for a minute the first time i saw it and thought I had a swap on my hands...then realized this is simplistic and repaired it. as a graduate of the #2 aerospace engineering school in the country and having built stuff for NASA birds flying around right now, i get technical, failure modes, fatigue, clean room ops for half a billion dollar vehicles that run 10 years with zero maintenance/repair at 20,000 mph. this is not that complicated, quite simple from a materials engineering stand point.
have a shop do it - $40 - $100 and you're done. i've had shops do some very creative repairs on blocks and heads that had chunks out of them and bad situations, machine shops do this stuff every day, not a big deal to them.
i would recommend not repairing if it has multiple cracks all through it, but this doesn't appear to be that way. looks like one large clean break.
what if he smasheddddd the atf pump? which is probably why this is cracked anyway. It probably cracked the pump internally just the same
but if the pump didn't get smooshed, google says okay to weld, but make sure done by a pro. might cost more than you think to weld though, maybe more than a trans.
but if the pump didn't get smooshed, google says okay to weld, but make sure done by a pro. might cost more than you think to weld though, maybe more than a trans.
Last time I had something cast aluminum welded back together, it was a Miata rear diff housing and it cost $150. . . Welding plate/billet aluminum is pretty easy compared to welding cast as it's tough to get cast aluminum clean enough to weld it back together.
Can be done, just takes a lot of prep work, and preheating, etc.
. . .and your pump may still be börked.
Can be done, just takes a lot of prep work, and preheating, etc.
. . .and your pump may still be börked.
indeed, i caveated and agreed with previous comments on that.
*** Is there a way to determine if the pump is cracked? that's the simple question then? does anyone know?
"what if's" are limited in scope and could be applied to all sorts of repairs....you'd have to throw away every overheated EJ25 based on "what ifs?" about #4 rod bearings. You could also "what if" every rebuilt wrecked car you and I have repaired - we don't do either of those things. Good assessment is required. Here's a good approach that we can probably refine a bit with our collective experience:
There are quite a few reasons to guess the pump is fine:
1. he said the engine and trans weren't touching when it broke. that doesn't guarantee anything by itself i know, but it's a good sign because people do wrench them together.
2. people break atf pumps all the time and bellhousings never break.
3. bellhousings do break (i've repaired them) without any TC or pump issues.
Those are significant indicators that there is hope, so let's continue the assessment with something statistically relevant and verifiable:
1. is the torque converter fully seated now?
2. was it when the break occured? in other words - has it changed since then or remains in the same position?
welders charge $45 - $80 per hour. local markets will vary but i would expect to pay $80, having done this kind of stuff multiple times.
there are no pull-it-yourself yards worth going to around here so his local market will dictate some of this too. time is money so i'd prefer avoiding the bellhousing swap - that's 10 hours working in a pull it yourself yard and then reassembling later.
i know local places well enough i've never had to search but you can call and ask their rates or even check out a welding forum to find someone local possibly:
WeldingWeb™ - Welding forum for pros and enthusiasts
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39 Posts
So to start the torque converter is definitely not seated correctly...at least thats my guess since I spent an hour trying the pull the engine back out and can't seem to get it. The mating surface of engine to bell housing is about a two inch gap. Anyone have any ideas as to why it seems to be stuck and what I could do to get it out without harming the engine? Im leaning towards just pulling a full tranny at the junkyard since it's only $100 and money is really tight. I know it will be a lot of work and not a guarantee of it's condition but I just can't spend $400+ on a used one that is known to work. As far as getting the current bellhousing welded that just wouldn't make sense to me to take out the whole tranny and pay at least probably $80-$100 when I can just go get a whole tranny. I would really rather not worry about that part...even if it does carry a minuscule load it would always be in the back of my head and I don't want that.
In the pic you posted, its obvious the TC is not seated and a high likelihood that the shaft damaged the pump.
As to what may be holding the eingine in, is it lifted off the crossmember? All the bolts out and the two lower nuts removed?
As to what may be holding the eingine in, is it lifted off the crossmember? All the bolts out and the two lower nuts removed?
^
I think he left the torque converter attached to the flexplate…. I think i asked this before or it was noted by someone else. THAT is the Big……. NO-NO
He hasn't posted a location either, if it was someone within a hundred miles, i would lend a helping free hand to guide the mechanically inclined to do it right...
I think he left the torque converter attached to the flexplate…. I think i asked this before or it was noted by someone else. THAT is the Big……. NO-NO
He hasn't posted a location either, if it was someone within a hundred miles, i would lend a helping free hand to guide the mechanically inclined to do it right...
Think he said Denver. . . which made 'doc's "drive it like an old lady on weed" comment a gem that I didn't notice until the 4th reread.
joke grenade right there.
I am curious about whether or not the flexplate was still attached to the converter during reassembly. . . man that would suck.
joke grenade right there.
I am curious about whether or not the flexplate was still attached to the converter during reassembly. . . man that would suck.
At least someone got it.
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39 Posts
Well do I feel like quite the dumb ass...I did leave the TC attached to the flexplate indeed. I had no Idea that was a no-no I guess since I figured I pulled it that way it made sense at the time to put it back in that way. TBH I was getting pretty lazy at this point after a twelve hour day and it was rolling around to midnight I should have called it quits and come back to it. Well I learned my lesson. So at this point with you fellas know how bad I mucked this one up did I damage anything else? and where should I go from here? I greatly appreciate your help as I would be utterly lost without it. And by the way I loved the old lady on weed joke.
the only way to do this successfully, is to mate the trans with torque converter seated, bring the engine to it til flush, bolt the engine to the bellhousing, then lastly attach the 4 bolts going from engine flexplate, to the torque converter of the trans.
TRANS and Torque converter as a married pair, MUST be together before your mate the engine to them.
time to get a pro involved since you have not got the right thing going.
oh and good luck, not yelling at you, just trying to clear things up and help being 762 miles away
oh, its possible the flexplate has got some stress cracks in it too. would remove it entirely, and inspect carefully for cracks around the center portion. if anything look not right replace it too.
TRANS and Torque converter as a married pair, MUST be together before your mate the engine to them.
time to get a pro involved since you have not got the right thing going.
oh and good luck, not yelling at you, just trying to clear things up and help being 762 miles away
oh, its possible the flexplate has got some stress cracks in it too. would remove it entirely, and inspect carefully for cracks around the center portion. if anything look not right replace it too.
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39 Posts
Oh trust me I have received enough scolding from myself...you can not imagine how frustrated I am with myself. But moving forward I think I'm just going to try removing the TC from the engine and see if I can't pull the engine back out so I actually have some room to work and see whats going on in there. I figure at worst the TC is jacked as it won't seperate from the tranny so when I get a new tranny I will get a TC as well. Does any part of that sounds flawed to anybody? I will obviously inspect the flexplate and any other pieces that I can just to be sure I didn't do anything further. Not looking for sympathy but just a little background I haven't done anything besides oil changes and replace the alternator in my life...not the most experience. I was semi-hesitant going in but figured ah what the heck I want to learn and I might as well start now. I don't regret doing this job at all as I have learned a ton and this mistake will undoubtedly save me from many others in the future. I learned my lesson the hard way.
Whenever I walk in to repair I'm not quite familiar with I try to watch a video or get a check list of some kind. That always helps save tons of money. Many times you can actually get technical service manual online somewhere. I think any of us who work on cars over any period of time have made expensive mistakes from time to time.
Do you know how to unbolt the torque converter from the flexplate with the trans/engine bolted up and in the car?
If so, skip the rest of this post. If not, there's a black plug about 2" x 2" at the back of the engine just to the right of the throttle body. Remove that plug and spin the engine via the crank pulley to gain access to each of the 4 bolts that holds it together.
It's fun finding a wrench or socket that fits in there. Flex head ratchet wrench works excellent (what I use) but a lot of guys pull the intake manifold first and it's a straight shot once you do that.
If so, skip the rest of this post. If not, there's a black plug about 2" x 2" at the back of the engine just to the right of the throttle body. Remove that plug and spin the engine via the crank pulley to gain access to each of the 4 bolts that holds it together.
It's fun finding a wrench or socket that fits in there. Flex head ratchet wrench works excellent (what I use) but a lot of guys pull the intake manifold first and it's a straight shot once you do that.
I also use a 1/4 inch drive snap-on swivel end ratchet, with good 6point socket thru the top access hole. Never pulled an intake and have done this on many. once they crack loose, no problems, use finger tips to spin rest of the way out, and have a magnet wand to catch them when the threads are almost all out, keep the bolt from falling thru to the bottom.
I think the last couple ones I have it down to using a 1/4 inch drive best quality craftsman ratchet and the 6point socket.
I think the last couple ones I have it down to using a 1/4 inch drive best quality craftsman ratchet and the 6point socket.
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