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This is neat - I've wondered about what it would take to disentangle superfluous integrated systems like this (for a variety of reasons), and I'm thoroughly looking forward to your documentation! Keep on keepin' on!
 
From one INFOSEC Warrior to another...way to go man! Keep us posted - outstanding job on your elucidations, too.

For the rest of 'ya that don't quite get this, I have two words for you:

Michael Hastings

Look'it up.
Third hit = infowars.
And that's enough internet for now, thank you.
 
Discussion starter · #43 ·
Third hit = infowars.
And that's enough internet for now, thank you.
I'd forgotten all about Hastings. The publicly-available evidence isn't sufficient for me to take the foul-play theories seriously. Pretty much all we know is 1. he died in a high-speed crash; 2. he had some enemies. Further evidence, for example EDR logs showing lots of conflicting inputs, would change my mind, but based on what I know I think it's overwhelmingly more likely that this was a reckless driving incident and nothing more.
 
The Pinto Outback! Wife had one of these.
My sister had a '71 AND a '74 Pinto (before we held an intervention).

Any current OB owner with the 2.5 4cyl engine that could drive one of those potential napalm IEDs would look at their OB as a C6 Corvette performance-wise in comparison.
 
Can someone sort this out a bit for me?: I just got my 2018 a few weeks ago and have not read the 10lbs of manuals. Not even sure they would help here.

I understand some of what a Starlink subscription can do, but will Starlink do anything without it? Can my stolen car still be found even if I don't subscribe?

And the telematics: That is a separate system from the Starlink portion? Is telematics working via the cell system? All the time?

Then there is the wifi element: Is the car supposed to connect TO a wifi network? Or is it creating a wifi hotspot for Starlink subscribers?

I'm trying to sort out the gratuitous data snorting vs. modestly useful features, free vs. paid.

There's a difference between being able to download data via the OBD connector, vs. always on don't-mind-us privacy erosion. I want to be a truly consenting adult, and I don't mean consenting in the sense that I clicked "yes" at the end of 20 pages of legal masturbation.
 
Discussion starter · #47 · (Edited)
I understand some of what a Starlink subscription can do, but will Starlink do anything without it? Can my stolen car still be found even if I don't subscribe?
No, Starlink telematics won't do anything useful for you without a subscription, not even make emergency calls. For locating a stolen car I suppose maybe you could try to get away with a just-in-time subscription, but I wouldn't count on it because I suspect it wouldn't take effect until the next time the car is restarted and by then it's probably too late.

And the telematics: That is a separate system from the Starlink portion? Is telematics working via the cell system? All the time?
Subaru uses the "Starlink" branding for both the telematics features and for all features of the head unit, which is confusing. I'm using "telematics" to mean "things that run over the cellular connection", which includes Starlink Safety & Security but also the AT&T hotspot service. Also, while XM radio uses a separate antenna for its downlink I think it may rely on the telematics antennas for selective access (DRM).

Then there is the wifi element: Is the car supposed to connect TO a wifi network? Or is it creating a wifi hotspot for Starlink subscribers?
It does both. The later requires a subscription (a separate one from your Starlink Safety & Security subscription), the former does not and should not rely on the telematics antennas.

I'm trying to sort out the gratuitous data snorting vs. modestly useful features, free vs. paid.

There's a difference between being able to download data via the OBD connector, vs. always on don't-mind-us privacy erosion. I want to be a truly consenting adult, and I don't mean consenting in the sense that I clicked "yes" at the end of 20 pages of legal masturbation.
For stolen vehicle recovery I don't think you can have it both ways: if thieves can be tracked, so can you. But OBD has nothing to do with telematics.

See my initial post for full discussion of privacy impact.
 
Don't forget the black box
The technical term for the device is an event data recorder, and they’ve been placed in vehicles since the 1990s. Early iterations were mostly designed to track when airbags deployed, but the ones placed in newer cars are much more sophisticated.

The gadgets, which aren’t black, can now record dozens of indicators including speed, whether seat belts were worn, if the brakes were applied and steering position. Most event recorders capture about six seconds of data before a crash, but some newer models can retain up to six minutes.
 
Discussion starter · #49 ·
Don't forget the black box
The technical term for the device is an event data recorder, and they’ve been placed in vehicles since the 1990s. Early iterations were mostly designed to track when airbags deployed, but the ones placed in newer cars are much more sophisticated.

The gadgets, which aren’t black, can now record dozens of indicators including speed, whether seat belts were worn, if the brakes were applied and steering position. Most event recorders capture about six seconds of data before a crash, but some newer models can retain up to six minutes.
For the 2020 Outback I believe it's 30 seconds.
 
My sister had a '71 AND a '74 Pinto (before we held an intervention).

Any current OB owner with the 2.5 4cyl engine that could drive one of those potential napalm IEDs would look at their OB as a C6 Corvette performance-wise in comparison.
We were just joking about wanting a Pinto (or at least I was). Can you imagine one of those things with a 70s automatic transmission? 0 - 60 in... maybe never.

However, after seeing the last 10 years of incredibly ugly cars coming out of Japan and Korea (and California, aside from Tesla), the early Pinto and Vega are a visual relief. Horrible cars, but relatively clean styling.
 
Discussion starter · #52 ·
UPDATE: The surgery was a success! The technician went about it slightly differently than I requested, disconnecting everything at the point most proximate to the DCM. He left me this diagram of what he did:

Image


The following functionality no longer works:
  • Wifi hotspot: the interface hangs if you try to enable it. You can still exit out by touching the "X".
  • XM satellite radio: the UI still works but there's no sound.
Since I already cancelled my Starlink Safety & Security subscription I can't directly verify that it's been truly disabled, but since the wifi hotspot is failing in the expected way I'm confident that it has been.

The following functionality still works just fine:
  • Terrestrial radio
  • GPS and navigation
  • Connecting to external wifi
Thanks a bunch to the service techs at Village Subaru of Acton, MA for coming through on this. This was a pretty weird request and they got it done quickly and capably.

I'm naming my stealth Subaru "Merope".
 
I'm naming my stealth Subaru "Merope".
I had to google that reference:

Merope is the faintest star in the Pleiades (Subaru) star cluster. The star Merope is often called the "lost Pleiad" because she was at first not seen by astronomers or charted like her sisters.

Bravo.
 
UPDATE: The surgery was a success! The technician went about it slightly differently than I requested, disconnecting everything at the point most proximate to the DCM. He left me this diagram of what he did:

View attachment 480072

The following functionality no longer works:
  • Wifi hotspot: the interface hangs if you try to enable it. You can still exit out by touching the "X".
  • XM satellite radio: the UI still works but there's no sound.
Since I already cancelled my Starlink Safety & Security subscription I can't directly verify that it's been truly disabled, but since the wifi hotspot is failing in the expected way I'm confident that it has been.

The following functionality still works just fine:
  • Terrestrial radio
  • GPS and navigation
  • Connecting to external wifi
Thanks a bunch to the service techs at Village Subaru of Acton, MA for coming through on this. This was a pretty weird request and they got it done quickly and capably.

I'm naming my stealth Subaru "Merope".

Wow, that's a great technician & dealer you have going there! That willingness to dig into this is impressive.
 
Remember when they were playing those VW 0-50 adds? I was driving a 74 2.3 auto Pinto. A friend an I went out with a stopwatch and tried several times. I think the best we ever got on a 0-50 time was around 9.1 seconds.

We were just joking about wanting a Pinto (or at least I was). Can you imagine one of those things with a 70s automatic transmission? 0 - 60 in... maybe never.

However, after seeing the last 10 years of incredibly ugly cars coming out of Japan and Korea (and California, aside from Tesla), the early Pinto and Vega are a visual relief. Horrible cars, but relatively clean styling.
 
Remember when they were playing those VW 0-50 adds? I was driving a 74 2.3 auto Pinto. A friend an I went out with a stopwatch and tried several times. I think the best we ever got on a 0-50 time was around 9.1 seconds.
Hey, that is not too bad! My family had an early 60s VW bug and the only way it could hit 60 was with a downhill and tailwind. I loved it though and I sure wish I still had one.
 
I cannot see how the vehicle telematics can collect your smartphone search date, unless you have the accompanying Starlink app on your phone.

Without specific app permissions granted on the device I can’t see how Starlink can access phone based data.

I’m all about privacy but fail to see the issues here.
 
The fundamental issue here is Subaru reselling my vehicle's data without consent. Even when an on-star subscription has terminated, the car is still sending data, including who is driving (Driver Monitoring System), how the car is being driven, where the car is being driven, and vehicle telemetry and possibly other data including what radio stations or songs are being listened to on the audio system, who is wearing seatbelts, driver distraction data (if DriverFocus is enabled and equipped), devices connected to the car's bluetooth/wifi (device identifiers), etc.

Subaru then packages this data (probably anonymized for GDPR reasons) and sells it to companies like The Ulysses Group who then merge this data with other datasets to deanonymize then resell tracking data to paying customers, including insurance companies and governments.

These practices are why I hate this post privacy era and will be doing whatever I can to maintain control over my data footprint.
 
UPDATE: The surgery was a success! The technician went about it slightly differently than I requested, disconnecting everything at the point most proximate to the DCM. He left me this diagram of what he did:

View attachment 480072

The following functionality no longer works:
  • Wifi hotspot: the interface hangs if you try to enable it. You can still exit out by touching the "X".
  • XM satellite radio: the UI still works but there's no sound.
Since I already cancelled my Starlink Safety & Security subscription I can't directly verify that it's been truly disabled, but since the wifi hotspot is failing in the expected way I'm confident that it has been.

The following functionality still works just fine:
  • Terrestrial radio
  • GPS and navigation
  • Connecting to external wifi
Thanks a bunch to the service techs at Village Subaru of Acton, MA for coming through on this. This was a pretty weird request and they got it done quickly and capably.

I'm naming my stealth Subaru "Merope".
it's easier than that. There are three antenna connections on the back of the Data Communication Module (DCM). simply unplug those and you're done. The extra connection there on AN21 (connection #2) goes to the audio unit for XM... it’s the xm antenna. Has nothing to do with the DCM communications. The DCM and the radio share the GPS antenna, that antenna cord splits, one connection to the audio, one to the DCM. Unplugging everything at the back of the DCM is easier. And you still get XM if you like that stuff.

three antenna connections on the DCM . Telematics main, telematics sub antenna, and GPS. Note the shared GPS connection, can unplug at the DCM. Or leave the GPS connected if all you want is to stop the telematics data communication from the car.

506452


it's possible to remove the DCM entirely - The DCM module still collects data, it just can't receive or transmit (which I think was the purpose of this thread, disabling communication). The only connections (other than CANBUS) to the audio from the DCM are wires for the mic, mute function, and front tweeters. There are connectors that loop the tweeter connections back around to bypass the DCM. You still have to figure out what to do with the MIC functions... three wires need to be connected to the back of the radio, and the pins in that connector may not be occupied - so pins might be needed to move the three connections from the DCM to the radio... maybe only two of them - those are the passthrough connections from the DCM to the radio - 2 sets of 2 wires for tweeters, two wires for the mic, and a mute function (leave mute disconnected). There are schematics in the wiring diagrams for the models without telematics, so you can compare the two to figure out what wires should go where if you wanted to disconnect that module entirely.

downsides of that: possible points of failure for a few audio functions (how good is your wiring?), and it's unclear if the mic still works with the three dedicated connections and not the extra three
from the DCM. DTCs that might annoy techs that scan the system for error codes.
upsides: no more DCM at all.
 
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