[traildogck]

I couldn't imagine 2 kids, all the time in a Gen3. Little B, no dog...no partner. But my laptop rides in the passenger seat most of the time. The car is fine for me. Going skiing, or weekends, we max it out. B's Mom has a Gen4, no dog...partner??? She carries a lot more garbage around.

Mini Van...Large SUV.

Or VistaCruza'

 

[digitalbliss06]

Also, a loaded out minivan will cost about what? about $15,000 more than a loaded out OB? food for thought...

 

[suma]

Also, a loaded out minivan will cost about what? about $15,000 more than a loaded out OB? food for thought...

This is true. I didn't realize they were so $$.

 

[endo]

You say your thinking about needing that minivan in the future. How far out do you see that future need?

For me, if the need is in the next 1-2 years, get the minivan. If it's 3-4 years, lease the Outback. 4 years or more out, cross that bridge when you get to it.

 

[pcray1231]

I faced the same crisis. 2 year old at home and our 2nd due in December.

Convenience/Space: The OB has more rear seat WIDTH than any other car in it's class, and really among even medium sized SUV's. Even so, 2 toddler seats and an adult in the back is a no-go for anything beyond the local 5 minute trips. I think it'll become do-able for medium trips once the older one graduates to a booster. Still, long trips with adults other than the wife and I are out of the question. This is the selling point of the minivan. If you have more than 2 kids, OR you want to take an adult or two with those two kids, the minivan is a clear winner.

Gas mileage: The minivans were worse, but when you do the math, the difference really doesn't amount to all that much in terms of $$$.

Safety: Both the Outback and the likely minivan (Honda Odyssey) were considered to be very safe. That said:

Performance: The Outback is far superior. It's easier to drive, you can see better, it handles better, it handles snow better, it works better for my hobbies (hunting and fishing on back roads). Even if the van does fine in a crash, the Subaru is going to avoid crashes better. And 90% of my miles are just me, going back and forth to work. It's better for that.

Price: The Dodge Caravan was a bit cheaper than the OB, but I had bad reliability experiences with Dodge. The Chrysler Town and Country was a little more, and I had the same reliability worries. I felt more comfortable with the Honda Odyssey regarding reliability, but it was far more money up front than what I paid on a Limited 2014 Outback.

So basically it came down to performance vs. convenience/space as the main drivers, and every other factor nodded towards the Outback. That's what won. You have to decide for you. There's no question with 3 kids I'd go minivan. Or if I had to haul grandparents around more (they live 4 hrs away, though, so it is a less frequent issue).

 

[zim2dive]

Also, a loaded out minivan will cost about what? about $15,000 more than a loaded out OB? food for thought...

Nah.. we paid 31k for the 2014 Odyssey (EX) and 28k for the OB (Premium).... the equipment on the Honda mildly outshines the OB.

 

[skwizzle]

Well I have 3 kids(4,2,8 month old) and we had 3 diono radians across in the back no problem. My 4 year old is now in a booster. I was debating between minivan and outback, we chose the outback because we did not need a 7passenger. If you don't have grandparents or another need for more passengers go with the outback. If you need to haul extra people time to time go with a minivan. The outback works for us, but it might not for other people.

 

[pcray1231]

2nd part of your question:

Finances of new car vs. used car. I went on KBB, just for a sake of comparison. 2010 Outback 2.5 Limited with 61,500 miles, very good condition.

Original buyer likely paid about 29k for it (low 30's MSRP). Trade in value is just north of $17k. If you bought the same car from a dealer, you'd pay about $20k. If you put another 61,500 miles on it, and traded it in 4 years (using a 2006 Outback Limited at 123000 for comparison), you'd expect about $7k for trade-in value.

New owner paid $12000 to run it 61,500 miles.
Used owner paid $13000 to run it 61,500 miles.

And that's not mentioning that the new owner had a newer, and thus nicer car, with typically better mileage and performance numbers. They also had it under warranty, so any repairs were done by the dealership. They also were less likely to need repairs, especially larger ones. Standard maintenance is far less for newer cars. And the new car owner started with brand new tires, brakes, and other standard "wear" issues.

Oh yeah, and if they had chosen NOT to trade this car in at 61,500 miles, they'd have the same car, at 61,500 miles, and they'd have that dealers $3000 cut in their pockets. And as such, you will be asking yourself why exactly they traded this thing in. Was there something wrong with it (possible), or did they just have a life change and needed something different (also possible). And sure, you can get a lemon from the dealership, but they are more common on the used market.

And yeah, you could potentially save a bunch by being the guy who then spends $9000 to buy the same car from the dealership at 122,000 miles, and likely sell it at 183k for $3000 or something. His cost was only $6000. But that's a gamble. It's $6000 PLUS increased maintenance and repairs. At 184,000, this owner is likely to have put significantly more money than either of the previous owners to keep it on the road. More than $6000 in 4 years and 61,500 miles? Maybe not, but maybe a lot more too. He gambled.

Whether used or new is the better deal shifts back and forth like a pendulum. Used prices go down, people start buying used, which drives up the used car prices and drives down the new car prices. That in turn makes people start buying new, which raises the prices on new cars, and puts a flood of used cars on the market so their prices fall. It goes back and forth. Markets demand that the total benefits of all approaches even out in the long run.

Right now, it seems, new cars are the better deal. That will change again. And the public will react late, so that those on the leading edge of the trends set the odds in their favor.

 

[digitalbliss06]

Nah.. we paid 31k for the 2014 Odyssey (EX) and 28k for the OB (Premium).... the equipment on the Honda mildly outshines the OB.

To try to compare these the best I could, I picked the top model of each line up and have posted the MSRP with no extra options included. All of this comes from Edmunds.com

2015 Subaru Outback Limited 3.6R MSRP: $32,995
2015 Honda Odyssey Touring Elite (FWD) MSRP: $44,600
2015 Toyota Sienna Limited Premium (AWD) MSRP: $46,150

 

[powerbars]

AWD Siennas are expensive. And the 2nd row are bucket seats only because of the tunnel.

 

[suma]

All good points.

So, I guess the big question is: when is Subaru coming out with a minivan?

 

[03LLBean]

I know you said you might not stopping at #2, but if you do, here's something to consider:
My parents bought the second gen new when I was four and my brother was one. Space was never a problem, and until my brother and I were both out of the car seats the Outback was basically the only kid hauler. They traded a first gen Windstar for it and didn't miss it's extra space (or anything else about it).
And the new Outback is bigger than the Gen 2.

 

[suma]

My parents bought the second gen new when I was four and my brother was one. Space was never a problem, and until my brother and I were both out of the car seats the Outback was basically the only kid hauler. They traded a first gen Windstar for it and didn't miss it's extra space (or anything else about it).

It was just us 2 kids (+ 2 parents) growing up, no pets, and we did everything in full-size sedans. Of course they were bigger back then. My dad's 1980 Lincoln Continental made for some pretty smooth boat rides on our 300 mi trips to the grandparents.

Then my parents got a van when both their kids were mid-30s. Go figure.

 

[zim2dive]

To try to compare these the best I could, I picked the top model of each line up and have posted the MSRP with no extra options included. All of this comes from Edmunds.com

2015 Subaru Outback Limited 3.6R MSRP: $32,995
2015 Honda Odyssey Touring Elite (FWD) MSRP: $44,600
2015 Toyota Sienna Limited Premium (AWD) MSRP: $46,150

I tend to shop in the middle... for us, the Outback Premium was comparably equipped to the Odyssey EX... both have 7" touchscreens and comparable infotainment (with fewer bugs on the Honda, and better sound).. both have backup camera (tho the Honda has no boot delay, and also adds passenger side camera for turning/merging right).. the Honda has powered side doors .. at this level both were cloth seats, and neither has nav, nor moonroof. So the large cost delta does not exist at the mid-level. The Honda EX *does* have keyless entry, OB Premium does not. The OB has a roof rack, the EX does not (but with all of the interior room, not sure you need one). So at the mid-level pricing, it is reasonably apples to apples.

 

[digitalbliss06]

I tend to shop in the middle... for us, the Outback Premium was comparably equipped to the Odyssey EX... both have 7" touchscreens and comparable infotainment (with fewer bugs on the Honda, and better sound).. both have backup camera (tho the Honda has no boot delay, and also adds passenger side camera for turning/merging right).. the Honda has powered side doors .. at this level both were cloth seats, and neither has nav, nor moonroof. So the large cost delta does not exist at the mid-level. The Honda EX *does* have keyless entry, OB Premium does not. The OB has a roof rack, the EX does not (but with all of the interior room, not sure you need one). So at the mid-level pricing, it is reasonably apples to apples.

Makes sense, only reason we bought a top trim OB is because we thought it was reasonably priced vs other makes/models.

 

[pcray1231]

So, I guess the big question is: when is Subaru coming out with a minivan?

If you hurry, you can still get a Tribeca. . It wasn't a minivan, but it was Subaru's "3rd row" SUV. Sales were terrible. It's being discontinued, supposedly with a replacement in the works that we'll see likely in 2017.

My understanding is that it's main failing is that it was just too small for 3 rows. The purpose of buying a van is to haul 7 passengers comfortably. But hauling 7 cramped, crabby passengers doesn't have nearly the appeal. Most, including me (and grandma and grandpa) would rather just take 2 cars.

And AWD was the ONLY area where it had any selling points at all over competitive models.

I kind of do hope the replacement is an honest to goodness AWD minivan, but I have my doubts. Look for something more akin to the Subaru Exiga sold in Japan. I don't get it, though, just look at it, it's a mini-minivan.

1. If I'm gonna bite the bullet and buy a van, just go all the way and make it a van already. I don't WANT a van. But if I'm gonna buy one, I'm sure as heck gonna buy one that can deliver on it's intended purpose, which is to haul more people more comfortably. Otherwise, I'd have bought something with only 2 rows. I no longer care about looks or sportiness. I already swallowed my youthful pride and replaced it with pride in keeping my family safe, happy, and comfortable. There's no level of designing that can make me feel like I'm a bachelor again. I am no longer pcray1231, I am just a faceless "daddy", and dang proud of it. Give me the keys to my minivan and shut up.

2. Really, with a 3rd row, sliding doors are better than swinging ones. What do these companies have against sliding doors? They don't "look" cool? See #1. If they are more convenient for the intended purpose, there should be a sliding door.

 

[tdelker]

Tribeca is an excellent option for families of 4 who want to occassionally want to take grandparents/friends with them. That's why we got it. Plus the spinout of the Gen 3 XT made my wife feel unsafe in that vehicle. VDC in 08+ tribeca should keep that from happening (and that it's not a turbo so she keeps her foot out of it a bit more - okay a lot more).

Back on track, Tribeca can work if you might go to 3, but tight at 4.

Wait for 2017 to see what the third row option from Subaru is. Then you will have the Highlander, Pilot or TribecaFollowOn options.

As a coworker once told me - "I don't know why my wife wanted a third kid. The world is made for families of 4. Booths at restaurants, cars, planes, everything. Once you go to 5 someone is always left out. And it's usually me."

 

[subiesailor]

Tribeca is an excellent option for families of 4 who want to occassionally want to take grandparents/friends with them. That's why we got it. Plus the spinout of the Gen 3 XT made my wife feel unsafe in that vehicle. VDC in 08+ tribeca should keep that from happening (and that it's not a turbo so she keeps her foot out of it a bit more - okay a lot more).

Back on track, Tribeca can work if you might go to 3, but tight at 4.

Wait for 2017 to see what the third row option from Subaru is. Then you will have the Highlander, Pilot or TribecaFollowOn options.

As a coworker once told me - "I don't know why my wife wanted a third kid. The world is made for families of 4. Booths at restaurants, cars, planes, everything. Once you go to 5 someone is always left out. And it's usually me."

I've said this lots. Will say it again

I have two kids and a grandparent we haul pretty much all the time. I sold our cherry three row Land Cruiser because the third row did not work for kids or kid. I looked at the Tribeca in 09 when dealers were dumping them at steep discounts. The 2010 Outback is huge compared to the Beca.

We sold the Cherry Land Cruiser to get the much roomier usable 3rd row Sequoia.

Every family we know with three kids already had a Highlander or Pilot before #3 arrived. They ALL replaced their small 3row suv with Mini vans. #1 reason the 3rd row in those vehicles are not a full time option due to poor access and space.

If a 2010 Outback wont work then you should not waste your money on a highlander, pilot or Tribeca. Those are over flow 3rd row seat cars nice to have in a pinch but pretty useless as every day haulers in the 3rd row.
trust me we spent 3yrs trying to make our Very very nice Land Cruiser work. And its wider than the pilot, highlander and beca by a BIG margin.

 

[tdelker]

Fair enough. We only do the occasional 5th person/kid. The tribeca's third row is perfect for us. I realized this is the minority.

Many here in Colorado go with the pilot or highlander for the 3rd kid. Not sure why. Most of my coworkers and friends with 3 go that way.

 

[pcray1231]

Probably because you have mountains, and a 2wd minivan doesn't cut it?