There isn't such a thing as "best" as long as it meets the specs listed in your owner's manual.
Discuss.
Discuss.
AWDFTW
What is the best oil / filter?
are you typing engine oil,...or olive oil?
140 character traditional Twitter rules apply.
Swear all you dag-nam-bit want.>
140 character traditional Twitter rules apply.
Swear all you dag-nam-bit want.>
like most things car-related, it's a compromise.
does your car sit in 105*F heat for hours
do you need it to start at -40*F
are you towing it? racing it? any modifications?
changing oil by mileage? based on a used oil analysis? on the 'time' side of the schedule?
does your car sit in 105*F heat for hours
do you need it to start at -40*F
are you towing it? racing it? any modifications?
changing oil by mileage? based on a used oil analysis? on the 'time' side of the schedule?
what's the best oil filter? neither the owners manual or factory service manual (for 2017 outback) that i looked through recommend a specific type of filter, or a certain "spec." but there's so much debate about "subaru spec oil filter with xyz bypass valve setting" when there is NO mention of it in the manuals as being recommended, suggested, or even hinted.
neither the owners manual or factory service manual (for 2017 outback) that i looked through recommend a specific type of filter, or a certain "spec." but there's so much debate about "subaru spec oil filter with xyz bypass valve setting" when there is NO mention of it in the manuals as being recommended, suggested, or even hinted.
Perfect example for a thread topic in this subforum.
BITOG would be proud of your contributions :29:
BITOG would be proud of your contributions :29:
Oil - Well the OM really doesn't have gospel inspired verbage on a definite oil viscosity. I don't mean the top off viscosities but instead, that part of the OM that says depending on conditions, a different viscosity is appropriate aka thicker oil. The problem is that it doesn't offer any guidance beyond that.
For my car, any SN 5w-30 will work fine. The last SN I used was M1 but currently I'm running Redline 5w-30. I found European Castrol 0w-30 (SL bc of zinc but otherwise SN) at my local CarQuest.
I have that because I'm going through SoCal deserts and into UT and AZ where it's been over 100 degrees outside with long grades and a full car. In similar environments you could also run M1 0w-40.
For less extreme conditions, run any SN name brand oil such as PP, PUP, M1 or M1 EP.
Very cold conditions might see benefit from M1 0w-30 but it would have to be awfully cold. You could run that oil year round if desired.
Filter - Run the OEM if it helps you sleep at night. If you want to venture off the rez, consider the M1, Fram Ultra or the Wix and Napa Gold. The reasons to stick with the OEM have been debunked many times over and staying with it because of the bypass setting is like being smitten with a 1 AM infomercial for ShamWow.
And even though the OP didn't ask, I'm sure he also meant to ask about favorite mustard for a hot dog. Plochman's for moi.
For my car, any SN 5w-30 will work fine. The last SN I used was M1 but currently I'm running Redline 5w-30. I found European Castrol 0w-30 (SL bc of zinc but otherwise SN) at my local CarQuest.
I have that because I'm going through SoCal deserts and into UT and AZ where it's been over 100 degrees outside with long grades and a full car. In similar environments you could also run M1 0w-40.
For less extreme conditions, run any SN name brand oil such as PP, PUP, M1 or M1 EP.
Very cold conditions might see benefit from M1 0w-30 but it would have to be awfully cold. You could run that oil year round if desired.
Filter - Run the OEM if it helps you sleep at night. If you want to venture off the rez, consider the M1, Fram Ultra or the Wix and Napa Gold. The reasons to stick with the OEM have been debunked many times over and staying with it because of the bypass setting is like being smitten with a 1 AM infomercial for ShamWow.
And even though the OP didn't ask, I'm sure he also meant to ask about favorite mustard for a hot dog. Plochman's for moi.
The best oil filter is the cheapest one available from the grocery store that also uses the same threads as the factory oil filter.
I do not believe in a best oil / best oil filter. I do believe there are a lot of bad oils and many fair to average oil filters. There are a few wise rules to follow when it comes to motor oil and filters.
1) Unless you have a degree in organic chemistry and / or automotive engineering, always use the weight of motor oil that is recommended in your owner's manual.
2) Always use a leading brand motor oil with the API rating recommended in your owner's manual. If you don't understand why, you need to visit this website. http://www.pqiamerica.com/
3) With apologies to Brucey, if you are going to use a cheap filter, never, ever, go over the recommended oil change interval. Cheap filters are designed to be, well, cheap. Cheap filters are not designed to hold up for very long. They are not designed to excel in any way. They are designed as an option for cheap people who are looking for cheap car maintenance. There are many a report of cheap filters failing when they are used for much over 6,000 miles. If you want to run extended oil change intervals, you better use a NAPA Gold / Wix, NAPA Platinum, Fram Ultra, Amsoil, Mobil 1, Micro Green, or some other filter that the manufacturer specifically states as being designed for extended oil change intervals.
There are over a dozen documented cases of owners driving more than a million miles on their car. Of those, there are two of them that the type of motor oil is documented. The others may be also, but I haven't been able to find anything on them. The best documented of the two is a BMW that was ran exclusively on Mobil 1. The reason it is so well documented is it was ran as part of a study by Mobil. The other is a '65 Volvo that was ran on Castrol until Castrol GTX was introduced in '67, and from that time on was ran exclusively on GTX. By the way, that Volvo has went over 3 million miles. So, I guess some could argue that Castrol GTX is the best motor oil on the market. It is interesting that none of the "premium" motor oil brands, such as Amsoil, Royal Purple, or Red Line, have reported being used in any of the million mile cars. You would sure think they would if they could. But they haven't. So it seems reasonable to surmise that, except for extended oil change intervals, there is absolutely no reason to spend your hard earned money on premium motor oils when Castrol GTX is documented as lubricating the longest lasting car on record.
1) Unless you have a degree in organic chemistry and / or automotive engineering, always use the weight of motor oil that is recommended in your owner's manual.
2) Always use a leading brand motor oil with the API rating recommended in your owner's manual. If you don't understand why, you need to visit this website. http://www.pqiamerica.com/
3) With apologies to Brucey, if you are going to use a cheap filter, never, ever, go over the recommended oil change interval. Cheap filters are designed to be, well, cheap. Cheap filters are not designed to hold up for very long. They are not designed to excel in any way. They are designed as an option for cheap people who are looking for cheap car maintenance. There are many a report of cheap filters failing when they are used for much over 6,000 miles. If you want to run extended oil change intervals, you better use a NAPA Gold / Wix, NAPA Platinum, Fram Ultra, Amsoil, Mobil 1, Micro Green, or some other filter that the manufacturer specifically states as being designed for extended oil change intervals.
There are over a dozen documented cases of owners driving more than a million miles on their car. Of those, there are two of them that the type of motor oil is documented. The others may be also, but I haven't been able to find anything on them. The best documented of the two is a BMW that was ran exclusively on Mobil 1. The reason it is so well documented is it was ran as part of a study by Mobil. The other is a '65 Volvo that was ran on Castrol until Castrol GTX was introduced in '67, and from that time on was ran exclusively on GTX. By the way, that Volvo has went over 3 million miles. So, I guess some could argue that Castrol GTX is the best motor oil on the market. It is interesting that none of the "premium" motor oil brands, such as Amsoil, Royal Purple, or Red Line, have reported being used in any of the million mile cars. You would sure think they would if they could. But they haven't. So it seems reasonable to surmise that, except for extended oil change intervals, there is absolutely no reason to spend your hard earned money on premium motor oils when Castrol GTX is documented as lubricating the longest lasting car on record.
I have no doubt that any of the better know boutique oils could run a car for a million miles but unless there is a source of wealth or sponsorship, I think a private party would go bankrupt first. $11.49/qt for RL times 7 equals $80.43. That's 167 changes at $80.43 for a whopping total of $13,045. Not for the faint of wallet.
I agree that you don't need to go boutique to protect and run the engine but I see no harm if that's one's dalliance. If you want to run any of boutiques do so and sleep well but you're wallet will know it.
I agree that you don't need to go boutique to protect and run the engine but I see no harm if that's one's dalliance. If you want to run any of boutiques do so and sleep well but you're wallet will know it.
I still chuckle when I think of @grossgary's best comment in another oil thread. I can't find it now, but to paraphrase: fancy motor oil is like putting on a crash helmet to ride in an elevator. Sure, it might improve your chances, but it's likely you were already doing just fine without all that hassle and expense.
It's not 1950 anymore. You have to work hard to find a truly bad motor oil for sale in the USA now.
It's not 1950 anymore. You have to work hard to find a truly bad motor oil for sale in the USA now.
The best oil is what's recommended / follow guidelines ie correct viscosity for temperature variations during use, listed in owners manual.
Along with the best oil / filter deal at the nearest aftermarket auto parts / accessory (reputable) retailer.
And service regularly, interval dependent on use.
I change mine (oil + filter) every 3K miles or every 6 months - which-ever comes 1st.
Along with the best oil / filter deal at the nearest aftermarket auto parts / accessory (reputable) retailer.
And service regularly, interval dependent on use.
I change mine (oil + filter) every 3K miles or every 6 months - which-ever comes 1st.
At 3k you are wasting oil and money. The oil is barely being used at that interval.
The days of 3k are long gone
The days of 3k are long gone
Hmmmmm, preferably new oil and filter is best! These days, oils are all quite similar in quality but have slightly different additives to be different from one another. As long as it meets API, it's good. As for filter, I just stick with Subaru's filter since, surprisingly, it is the cheapest filter for the OB around these parts.
While it's true that "penny pinching" in the sense of trying to save money by buying inadequate lubricants (or inadequate anything) is a fool's game, this is a completely preposterous argument in this context, because so long as the lubricants used meet Subaru recommended specs, they are not in the least inadequate.
There is not one shred of empirically verifiable evidence to suggest that using oils graded in accordance with the recommendations in the Subaru manual, and changing them at the recommended intervals, will reduce engine longevity or performance by one single minute.
Putting this another way, there is no verifiable evidence of longer engine life from using expensive boutique oils or shorter OCI's than from using whatever is on sale—at the recommended OCI—so long as it meets the manufacturer's specs.
The "penny pinching" argument is simply a marketing ploy designed to make you feel like you're making a terrible mistake by shopping around for the least expensive alternative.
This is marketing 101.
First create anxiety by suggesting you're "doing it wrong" and taking a huge risk by "being a cheapskate", then offer your expensive product as the solution. People fall for it every day, then get irritated when it's pointed out to them.
That's a fair point although in my view the discussion can move beyond the standard recommendation.
What the OM and the SAE standards do not and cannot predict is environment. All the OM can do is give you their best view on normal and severe service. Clearly and without much consternation, the mere fact that SOA, and all other manufacturers too, gives you a recommended severe interval tells you that the normal interval isn't ideal because their recommended oil will break down or be unsuitable.
This is exactly why the OM goes further and says that for your environment you may need to change your viscosity. SOA just makes an educated guess on how and where most people will use the car but they also give themselves an out too. Smart by SOA but it still tells you that even they don't stand by one viscosity for a set length for all conditions.
One important thing to consider is that all SN 5w-30 oils are nearly the same. Nothing more than variations on a baseline standard and for the most part, one is as good as another and therein lies the problem.
Look at any of the VOAs on BITOG and then UOAs for the same oil. They all seems to lose their cSt values but also stay in grade although in the low end. Just a fact of life with oil.
If you run for distance where the oil gets up to temp and stays there then you're doing well but for me, I make one way trips of less than 3 miles on some days and the oil never gets up to temp aka I'm running rich which is the number one reason for diluted oil. The dilution thins it out and lowers the cSt value.
By running, in my case Redline 5w-30, a different oil than a garden variety SN oil, I get a much higher cSt so the dilution isn't as much of a concern. I think the highest cSt oil available at Wally World has a value of 11.1 and many oils are much less. The Redline has a value of nearly 12 and Castrol Euro 0w-30 has a value of around 12.2. These are all within grade for a 30w oil but at the upper end while still meeting the grade requirements. If M1 or Pennzoil offered a 12 cSt with a HTHS of 3+, I'd be tickled to death but it won't happen because thin oils help meet CAFE mileage standards.
So thick vs thin does have relevance to the analysis and SOA intimates that it does, depending on use.
What the OM and the SAE standards do not and cannot predict is environment. All the OM can do is give you their best view on normal and severe service. Clearly and without much consternation, the mere fact that SOA, and all other manufacturers too, gives you a recommended severe interval tells you that the normal interval isn't ideal because their recommended oil will break down or be unsuitable.
This is exactly why the OM goes further and says that for your environment you may need to change your viscosity. SOA just makes an educated guess on how and where most people will use the car but they also give themselves an out too. Smart by SOA but it still tells you that even they don't stand by one viscosity for a set length for all conditions.
One important thing to consider is that all SN 5w-30 oils are nearly the same. Nothing more than variations on a baseline standard and for the most part, one is as good as another and therein lies the problem.
Look at any of the VOAs on BITOG and then UOAs for the same oil. They all seems to lose their cSt values but also stay in grade although in the low end. Just a fact of life with oil.
If you run for distance where the oil gets up to temp and stays there then you're doing well but for me, I make one way trips of less than 3 miles on some days and the oil never gets up to temp aka I'm running rich which is the number one reason for diluted oil. The dilution thins it out and lowers the cSt value.
By running, in my case Redline 5w-30, a different oil than a garden variety SN oil, I get a much higher cSt so the dilution isn't as much of a concern. I think the highest cSt oil available at Wally World has a value of 11.1 and many oils are much less. The Redline has a value of nearly 12 and Castrol Euro 0w-30 has a value of around 12.2. These are all within grade for a 30w oil but at the upper end while still meeting the grade requirements. If M1 or Pennzoil offered a 12 cSt with a HTHS of 3+, I'd be tickled to death but it won't happen because thin oils help meet CAFE mileage standards.
So thick vs thin does have relevance to the analysis and SOA intimates that it does, depending on use.
I don't recall any proof, but, there was speculation that European market OMs listed different (heavier) viscosity than US OMs and the thought was the difference was due to CAFE rules.
wonder if the engines that call for 0-20 here , also do so in Europe?
wonder if the engines that call for 0-20 here , also do so in Europe?
They are not the be all end all of data. They can show a snapshot and some trends, but different labs (Blackstone, NAPA, etc) produce different results on the same sample, and make different recommendations.
Data it is, determinative....I wouldn't say so.
Data it is, determinative....I wouldn't say so.
I can't believe there is still new oil/filter talk on this forum......Its only been gone over a billion or so times.
I have been an active member on no less than 20 car and motorcycle forums over the years and believe me, it never ends!!!!
NEPRT pretty much covers it. (You will have to visit the Yamaha FJR forum to see what NEPRT stands for)
:grin2:
NEPRT pretty much covers it. (You will have to visit the Yamaha FJR forum to see what NEPRT stands for)
:grin2:
You're all deplorable. Every single one of you for participating in this endless diatribe.
Oh and I'm also one of you too.
:20:
Oh and I'm also one of you too.
:20:
Subnz,
I could get a wee bit more enthused about your 3k change idea if any of your linked sources actually said that. None of them do.
The AWD article is nearly 10 years old and oil and filters have come a very long way since then. You're just p!ssing money away for no valid reason.
Is only oil and oil is cheap so there's no harm with those 3k changes but there's no benefit either. Seriously, the times have changed because the science and product development have vastly improved.
How old is that Haynes manual?
I could get a wee bit more enthused about your 3k change idea if any of your linked sources actually said that. None of them do.
The AWD article is nearly 10 years old and oil and filters have come a very long way since then. You're just p!ssing money away for no valid reason.
Is only oil and oil is cheap so there's no harm with those 3k changes but there's no benefit either. Seriously, the times have changed because the science and product development have vastly improved.
How old is that Haynes manual?
Best oil for me is Mobil 1 0w20 with the current $12 rebate per 5 quart jug, limit 2. Two oil changes for $28 is pretty good.
I only put about 2500 miles on in six months, so that's when it gets changed. Too bad for me.
I only put about 2500 miles on in six months, so that's when it gets changed. Too bad for me.
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