[Fibber2]

Just like the Subaru Super Coolant, they are free of silicate, borate, nitrite or amine containing additives which can harm an engine.

And now the $64k question: is Subaru Coolant conditioner still recommended for later EJ engines? The main ingredient is sodium tetraborate (decahydrate), otherwise known as Borax.

 

[BHopkins]

And now the $64k question: is Subaru Coolant conditioner still recommended for later EJ engines? The main ingredient is sodium tetraborate (decahydrate), otherwise known as Borax.

This is an excellent question. The short answer is yes.

The long answer is that both the Owner's Manual and the Service Manual specify use of Subaru Cooling System Conditioner whenever doing a coolant flush and fill. In the Warranty and Maintenance booklet for my '13, footnote 11 to the maintenance schedules states "To prevent cooling system leaks, always (emphasis added) add Genuine SUBARU Cooling System Conditioner whenever the coolant is replaced." In the Service Manual for my '13, the section on how to do a coolant replacement includes specific instructions to "Pour cooling system conditioner through the filler neck.", before adding coolant.

There are those that will try to tell you that the conditioner is no longer required with the use of Subaru Super Coolant. But their opinions are in direct conflict to the instructions I quoted above. The stuff only costs a few dollars. Why risk it?

 

[Fibber2]

Good catch! I'll have to check the glove box manual at lunchtime to verify on my '14 (FB Engine). Your '13 FB engine still recommends it. Interesting!

I have most of the manuals in .pdf form, and so far haven't found any mention of Conditioner. MSA5M1404A in Specifications, P12-8 covers coolant capacity & type, Mant & Service / Cooling System, P11-15 covers interval, mixing, total system operation (fans, indicators, fuses), leaks, checking, and that Changing should be left to the dealer! ZERO mention of Conditioner.

I DO NOT have a copy of the US Warranty & Maintenance Booklet soft copy. I have several international downloads, but the Subaru Site doesn't have it. The Aussie and other downloads have no mention of Conditioner either.

 

[Fibber2]

Continuing to search, and you are (of course!) correct: Both the 2010 and 2014 Subaru Service Manual, page CO(H4SO)-2 has it.
Cooling system protecting agent - Cooling system conditioner - SOA345001

 

[Fibber2]

And because confusion abounds on this topic, I thought I'd include this:

Genuine Subaru SOA868V9260 Super Coolant Concentrate (small bottle, you have to cut with water)

Genuine Subaru SOA868V9270 Super Coolant Premix (1 gal jug)

 

[eagleeye]

Genuine Subaru SOA868V9260 Super Coolant Concentrate (small bottle, you have to cut with water)

this product is for lowering the coolant operating temp to -62F (-52C). :13: label says to draw regular coolant mix out of the rad, and replace it with this at full strength.


as per the label pics and descriptions here,...front label calls it "extreme cold weather" :
https://www.amazon.com/Genuine-Subaru-SOA868V9260-Super-Coolant/


_____

I don't think subaru sells a 50% concentrate to mix with distilled water anymore.

 

[Fibber2]

The big difference between the two is the water content.

SUBARU Long Life Super Coolant 50/50 SOA868V9270 is 48-53% water

SUBARU Long Life Super Coolant Concentrate is 3-5% water

$25 a gal (50/50 mix with the water)

$35 for two quart bottles (concentrate without the water)

Take your pick....

If you do a flush, remember that you will not be able to remove 100% of the plain water you introduce. If you only refill with the 50/50 premix, you will end up with substantially less percentage of coolant than what you were aiming for. So to get it to where you really want it (at least a true 50/50 mix), you NEED some zero water concentrate.

And that old Prestone Antifreeze tester you've had in the garage for 30 years probably won't be accurate, because it was calibrated for the specific gravity of pure ethylene glycol / water mix. I suppose you could 're-calibrate' it by trying a sample of today's 50/50 from the bottle, and mark the scale yourself.

 

[TFin04]

Great discussion guys, I appreciate your time.

 

[TFin04]

Okay guys, based on your advice I've decided to do a flush and fill, and replace the thermostat while I'm at it. Here is my shopping list, just wondering if you guys recommend anything else while I am wrenching on the cooling system:

- 6-7 gallons distilled water
- Chemical flush additive
-Subaru premix coolant
- Subaru coolant conditioner
- Subaru thermostat
- Thermostat gasket

My plan is to drain, fill with flush and water, run, let cool. Drain, fill with plain water, run, let cool. Drain, replace thermostat, fill with conditioner and coolant.

How much distilled water should I expect to be trapped after my final drain? How do you guys recommend I get the proper final mix of coolant and water?

 

[Fibber2]

I don't think anyone is going to be able to give you a definitive answer on this. When I did this on my old Outback, I got out a lot less (5-6 quarts) than what the owners manual suggested was the fill capacity (something like 7-8 quarts?), so there is a certain amount trapped in there. Recovered minus what the manual lists as capacity is what's left behind, and that can leave you underprotected if you only have 50/50 premix.

To aid the process, I will jack up the rear end. I don't think there is a heater core coolant flow valve anymore as there was on older cars, but just to be sure turn the key to 'on' and run the heater. If you try the compressed air trick on a hose, keep the pressure very low!

If you are going to use a hydrometer to test the coolant, start with a sample of the Subaru 50/50 to establish a baseline. The problem is that today's mixes are closer to the specific gravity of water than the Prestone we grew up with, so it's harder to differentiate between a 50/50 vs 40/60 outcome than it used to be.

Oh, and go easy on the chemical flush additive! IIRC, Subaru doesn't recommend these, and given how delicate head gaskets can be you don't want any chemical attack there.

 

[TFin04]

Ok, I'll probably skip the flush additive.

To get proper mix after final drain of water: measure what comes out, subtract that from the system total volume, add that amount of pure coolant, then top off with 50/50?

 

[Fibber2]

Assuming the published number of total system capacity in your owners manual is correct, that procedure should get you pretty close.

 

[TFin04]

In case anyone is curious, or someone finds this thread later:

Went to the local dealer to buy premix, full strength coolant, and conditioner. Was informed that the concentrate and premix are two different chemical makeups and are not compatible. They do not use the concentrate on any vehicle that calls for the "Super blue."

Subaru also stopped making coolant conditioner. They couldn't tell me that it was no longer recommended, but if I can't even buy it, and they don't use it, well...

Spoke to the lead tech who said my situation is fairly common and that a drain, flush, drain, fill is more than adequate to "fix" the issue. I did that tonight and went for a quick test drive after, everything seems to be good. If an issue comes up I'll post back here, but if not it means the cooling system hasn't had any problems.

 

[Fibber2]

Was informed that the concentrate and premix are two different chemical makeups and are not compatible. They do not use the concentrate on any vehicle that calls for the "Super blue."

I don't even know what to say to that.... See the images below from an SOA brochure and the MSDS.

The Conditioner is an interesting issue. It's available as SOA635071 or SOA345001. I was told the same thing a few years ago (no longer for sale, not recommended) by one dealership, and then bought it at another (where the parts guy said they still use it as recommended by the shop manual). If you google it, you'll find both opinions coming up.

 

[TFin04]

Interesting. The MSDS certainly leaves no question.

It's a dealer with a great reputation in an area where Subaru is a very popular vehicle, but I guess nobody is perfect.

 

[Fibber2]

Unfortunately, misinformation abounds.... These guys are typically good with a wrench, but chemistry and electricity isn't their strong suit.

But I once again defer to the Factory Shop Manual. Until I see a retraction in the form of a TSB issued by SOA, this is the official final word....

 

[Fibber2]

I was at my dealer today getting the 7th of my 9 free oil changes, and went to the parts counter to pick up a quart of the concentrate. They have it on their web site but I figured I'd grab it in person. #SOA868V9260: Super Coolant Concentrate. 1 Quart Bottle

Well, not only don't they actually have any in stock, they don't show any availability within the district, so can't even order it for me.... But they did have plenty of Conditioner in stock, so I bought a bottle for $1.92 just to grab it while it's available.

 

[cbst09]

Wow, only $1.92 per bottle? That is a very good price

 

[Fibber2]

Oops, looks like I fibbed.... I actually paid $1.93 (not $1.92 as reported!).

 

[idosubaru]

I just bought two bottles last week. It's always been in stock when I've needed it.