Looks good. I have the LP one on the way here, so should be sitting like yours by mid June

 

Nice! Im curious why they include an extended exhaust hangers with theirs...

 

so even with the insert you still have a wobble?

 

correct. Mind you I have a lead foot and can only feel it when I drive like they just restocked toilet paper at the supermarket/ accelerating around corners. It's kinda fun though.... BTW this install was done at ~26,000 miles. I have a feeling the sooner a lift and CVT insert done the less likely wobbles would result, but I don't have enough experience to justify that, just a couple classes in mechanical vibrations and some intuition to back the idea....

 

Looks good! If you want to minimize the wobble even more try the 3/4" carrier bearing spacer from ADF, I did that and it helped a lot. Very easy to install too and it's only $20.

 

Wicked! Thanks so much for the insight. I'm all for trying out all of these corrective measures. What I would really like is to find out exactly why it only happens from 15-18 mph.... All my college studies point towards there being multiple speed ranges this wobble should occur at if its speed related, even if each subsequent wobble is more damped/less noticeable... however if im in a "higher gear"/lower RPM and drop back down to the 15-18 mph range and accelerate again, it doesn't occur... It seems to be a product of a higher RPM in the 15-18 mph range accelerating from a stop... anyway,

 

Looks nice but not with a guaranteed (or so it seems) wobble at any speed. Not for me.

 

I use to feel the same way but wish I had done it sooner. Driving experience is hands down better even with the slight wobble, I hated being as low to the road as I was. I didn't buy an outback for a luxury ride quality anyway so its worth the elevated driving experience for me... I'd like to know at what mileage this performance upgrade wouldn't create the wobbles, seems like something you could avoid with a newer vehicle and the lift install but I won't know until I look into it more....

maybe @traildogck has some more expertise on the subject

 

This is the first time I've heard of the engine/transmission response changing due to a lift.

If you take the lift off does it go away?

 

 

@traildogck might want to read this. (the CKE master crafter himself)

but @Fortify503 that is a nice looking rig,

 

thanks! I actually meant to tag @traildogck in the original post but I always tag a guy named Hankdog instead lol

 

So....

Do all of you with a rear subframe drop also have the center carrier bearing drop spacer from ADF? I strongly suggest the carrier drop in conjunction with the CVT mount insert. I have also heard that Primitive offers a transmisson subframe drop/spacer kit which may also help. I can not confirm this, but from a design intent, it makes perfect sense. I also can not confirm application fitment acoss models. But, in my experience, the transmision subframe mount bolts for all models are the same.

 

I do not. I emailed Patrick about it last week and he said to come by and get one installed once his new shop is open, so I said Sure! I looked into it after @F6power recommended it. I believe the Primitive rep was talking to me about the transmission sub frame spacer kit as it's part of the total lift install they do at a Subaru dealership near me. so ill do a little more research. Something tells me with 2" in the front and 2.5" in the rear that might not be an option since I believe all primitive lifts those go on are 1.5" front and rear?... but again I will do my homework first

 

LP kit arrived today. Priming it tonight (I'm picky just accept it) and then paint tomorrow. Should set me up for a weekend install nicely. Pict will follow when I start disassembly of Obie.

 

Paint is on. Nothing too much, just stops the road grime eating anything. Though stainless steel shouldnt be a big issue anyway. Had some fun adding pink detail to the front hats as they may be visible in the engine bay. And because it was fun. And Pink is super Subaru Lore. Going to start pulling the front wheels tonight and see what happens, more to follow (the paint was some spare titanium that I had from a 2004 Outback lower portion so it is a valid Subaru paint code even)

 

With the kit fully installed I will say the (4) included exhaust hangers were not needed. I didnt remove the factory ones at all during the install, and there is enough space around the subframe I am not too worried. I kept them in case I hear noise at a later date but dont expect to have any issues. Assume the hangers are included 2 each for 2 exhaust models. I only have a single and i like the way it's tucked up near the bumper so if I don't have to add them I will be happy.

 

thats what I was thinking... why would you want to lower them and negate a portion of the reason you just lifted it?.... (honestly I bet there's a reason and I'd love to know I just can't think of one)

 

Keep in mind, you are now running bigger tires and wheels, Right? Larger shoes will affect power, acceration and gearing. So, Depending how smart the CVT programinging is, my money is on the added weight, and rotational mass at the corners.

 

And all this is why lift is last on my list of “needs”.

 

but plasti dipping your hood, buying BFG ko2's, LP wheels, ditch lights, wheel arch moldings, fog light tint and an aftermarket grill is?......... Bro your "off-road" vehicle is capable of everything but going off-road LOL!! i hope they have paved roads where you go camping.... And who worries about a wobble when that's all one experiences on the less traveled roads? I don't go to malls or car shows with my Outback so I would never worry about the little things affecting the pleasure I get from my off road vehicle. being able to clear a rut that a Toyota Camry wouldn't be able to is more what's on my mind. You can't let the little things deter your happiness with a still solid performing vehicle like that. BTW I love plastidip and still want to do that to my hood

 

Improvements that improve off-road performance just let you get stuck in worse spots. 😄

 

aint that the truth. One of the testers for Primitve shed this lesson to me about how his current replacement bumper winch-mount system seems to find all the spots on familiar trails he's managed to avoid over the years and plops him right down into them lol

 

By stance I meant the way it looks sitting higher but of course you knew that. Look I get your upset that you spent hundreds if not thousands for nothing special. I was in trig in 9th grade so I know that those angles of entrance/ angles of departure would have to be some pretty dang exact for 2" to make any notable difference. I suppose it's possible that you have the most coincidentally specific angles for your lift kit in the history of the earth where you drive but I doubt it. Like Miami said a 2" lift will not be a deal breaker in the places you camn still go with the stock vehicle.

 

I would never be upset about investing into the things im passionate about. Engineering, creating more capable vehicles by modifying them, doing the shimmy from 15-20 mph, supporting local businesses.... While everything you've stated is literally correct in its own right, you fail to see that just because what you say is true doesn't mean that performing a modification to my car is now void any inherent value to my own daily routines. I suppose lowering a vehicle to make it more aerodynamic serves no purpose to you either because it wouldn't make it "aerodynamic enough" at a 2" drop to justify it?... although the improved power performance by cutting out some drag forces can easily be understood when you start cutting seconds off your quarter mile runs....Coincidently the routes I couldn't take before the lift and that I am now able to coincidentally take needed about that much more clearance from my vehicle.... There's nothing coincidental about evaluating, strategizing and executing. In fact, thats why there's 2" in the front and 2.5" in the rear, because thats what I figured I would need, not because I played mouse button roulette when I was on ADF's website.... A 2" lift was a deal maker, I can now drive my car up to the places I couldn't?.... I wasn't magically able to compete in the SuperCrawl after the lift, but it served it purpose, with an added wiggle... If a 2" lift isn't justified in your life, don't buy one. speed bumps at the mall aren't that big anyway...

 

What does the "wobble" actually feel like? I'm approaching the time to replace my struts and I've considered a 1" spacer while I have it all apart.

Is it like hard braking with warped rotors? Or death wobble from a Jeep (I've had it)?

I have read several things about it but have not been given a detailed description of the physical experience.

***Sidenote, on my previous XV I had a CV joint fail under warranty. It was a '14 and what I read was the early Crosstrek was just an Impreza hatch with Forrester ground clearance so the angle of the CVs was compromised from the start. These inherent suspension challenges are a major reason I have yet to purchase a lift kit for the OB. But they certainly look sweet!!

 

What does the "wobble" actually feel like? I'm approaching the time to replace my struts and I've considered a 1" spacer while I have it all apart.

Is it like hard braking with warped rotors? Or death wobble from a Jeep (I've had it)?

I have read several things about it but have not been given a detailed description of the physical experience.

***Sidenote, on my previous XV I had a CV joint fail under warranty. It was a '14 and what I read was the early Crosstrek was just an Impreza hatch with Forrester ground clearance so the angle of the CVs was compromised from the start. These inherent suspension challenges are a major reason I have yet to purchase a lift kit for the OB. But they certainly look sweet!!

That's a great question, and hopefully others chime in because I don't want to speak for everyone, but mine is mostly like a little shudder in the steering column. Its actually really hard to compare to anything because of how discrete it is so maybe that's why anyone lacks a complete description of it?.. If you notice how much fun I poke at the "shimmy" its because like any rational being, I was dead afraid of this too for the longest time, but it happens to be a laughing matter because of how negligible mine is. Again, others have taken the lift right off after they ran into it because maybe depending on when the install goes in matters that much on how aggressive the shake is? idk, if I know enough to properly talk through this but the kits with the multilink spacers are suppose to minimize that exact CV joint angle change to the driveline from what I understand. Im still learning so maybe i can explain that more properly later or someone else can chime in. @Brucey and @traildogck are very knowledgable if you want to message them more about it.

P.S. this is nothing compared to the jeep death wobble or warped rotors. (coming from a '89 wrangler guy here)

 

We have the same components so it was super easy to just bolt on the kit from ADF. I’m able to fit 235/65 r17 without any rubbing even at full lock. I’ll be going a bit higher hopefully by the end of the summer. I’m around the same clearance as a stock outback now.

 

We have the same components so it was super easy to just bolt on the kit from ADF. I’m able to fit 235/65 r17 without any rubbing even at full lock. I’ll be going a bit higher hopefully by the end of the summer. I’m around the same clearance as a stock outback now.

I'm not sure why you bothered. I have on good authority that the height difference between the Legacy and the Outback is just for show and doesn't actually increase it's capabilities at all.

I kid I kid.

Cool ride! Makes me wish Subaru would still make the SUS.

 

It was a joke bubby.

You are correct in all things here and else where.

 

It was a joke bubby.

You are correct in all things here and else where.

Wooooooosh

 

I think wobble comes from 2 things. On aged car, car with miles before the lift, a contributor is changing the CV axle angles/lengths. This applies regardless of whether the lift has a rear subframe drop or not.

New or new-ish cars, with rear subframe spacers change the driveshaft angles. This stresses the front u-joint and the rear. Especially if those cars do not have the ADF (or similar) carrier bearing spacer. Because, just dropping the rear subframe mess with a 2 piece driveshaft even more.

Cars that leave the rear subframe alone are unlikey to experince "wobble" unless they also have CV issues.

I of course, have not experinced any this 1st hand with a Subaru. I do have over 10 years experince building my own off-road Jeeps and Trucks. They are simpler beasts, because they are not unibody and not so rigid as 5-star rated chassis. However, its all simple geometry and a little simple physics. The math doesn't change, and that is what the math tells me.

@Brucey and myself worked extensivly to do the best we could to help solve this on his car, few years ago now, Huh? Anyway, at the time we were just a couple of enthusists bending one of my designs, trying to make another Suabru better. Nobody expected the "tranny plug" catch on.

 

The rear--best solution. I have posted this several times already...

• Shimming/spacing down the transmisstion cross member.

This tilts the transmission output shaft angle down.

• In conjuction with spacing down the carrier bearing.

This drops the carrier bearing. The goal is to have the drive shaft...along the same "line" as stock. Here is where it starts to get tricky. If you look at different models, years, even cars. They are different.

• In conjuction with shimming the rear subframe mounts.

The rear subframe needs to tilt up. Most (if not all lifts) have rear subframe spacers that are not unique. The rear pion angle needs to get pitched up. This means the rear-rear subframe spacers need to be "taller" than the front-rear subframe spacer. Adding the 3rd moving part to the mix, it gets even tricker. A lot of time playing and testing differnt senarios.

I have also posted a few times. If I could get data from people with stock cars, and lifted cars. (Some people have conacted me, so far nothing has gone anywhere) If I could get s measurement off the ground at certain points, and driveshaft angles, pinion angles. Then I could develope a kit. The data would hopefully converge on a "standard" that is best for all vs, unique kits. I don't have access to the cars, so I'm stuck. Many a interweb geek could source the design data from pirated Subaru black files. But I'm not that guy.

 

The rear--best solution. I have posted this several times already...

• Shimming/spacing down the transmisstion cross member.

This tilts the transmission output shaft angle down.

• In conjuction with spacing down the carrier bearing.

This drops the carrier bearing. The goal is to have the drive shaft...along the same "line" as stock. Here is where it starts to get tricky. If you look at different models, years, even cars. They are different.

• In conjuction with shimming the rear subframe mounts.

The rear subframe needs to tilt up. Most (if not all lifts) have rear subframe spacers that are not unique. The rear pion angle needs to get pitched up. This means the rear-rear subframe spacers need to be "taller" than the front-rear subframe spacer. Adding the 3rd moving part to the mix, it gets even tricker. A lot of time playing and testing differnt senarios.

I have also posted a few times. If I could get data from people with stock cars, and lifted cars. (Some people have conacted me, so far nothing has gone anywhere) If I could get s measurement off the ground at certain points, and driveshaft angles, pinion angles. Then I could develope a kit. The data would hopefully converge on a "standard" that is best for all vs, unique kits. I don't have access to the cars, so I'm stuck. Many a interweb geek could source the design data from pirated Subaru black files. But I'm not that guy.

I'm willing to be a guinea pig again.

What #'s you need, boss?

 

<edit>

 

Helloooooo????!!!! This is MY thread! Stop hijacking it! hahahah kidding.

Here are some videos from Boise Ridge Road UTV trail that I said, "hold my beer, watch this." As always, it was MUCH more daunting in person.

enjoy! Not sure what kind of phone my buddy has, it's like resolution of 1x2 hah

 

Here we go! There is a column to add reference photos for each respective location when we are able to do so. Anyone can comment on the sheet to add their values. **Look at the different sheets at the bottom of the screen, each different lift setup is color coded, enter values in your respective sheet. The template is protected from anyone editing but everyone has permission to enter their measurements. Choose a column, enter your measurements, you're done! Also, feel free to include your "member" name in the "Member:" row for communications sake. Any tips on how you measured each position would also come in handy (angle ruler, good ol' trigonometry etc...
cheers!

Lifted Outback angles_data

docs.google.com

 

I think this is what were after if @traildogck is still interested.

• transmission output shaft center-line height.
• transmission output shaft angle vs horizontal (180)
• rear differential center-line height (center of u-joint cross)
• rear differential pinion angle vs horizontal

Im having a hard time with how to measure the pinion angle because I don't have anything very true to space off of it and get a measurement from. any ideas?

 

anyone have any specs for the carrier bearing spacer bolt kit? ie: M14 x length x bolt thread?