From Subaru or any automaker?

 

Sorry I might have deleted the previous response post on accident. I meant the Subaru. It’s kind of a vague question I’m asking but essentially I want to compare the difference between the 2019 and 2020 engine.

 

It’s kind of a vague question I’m asking but essentially I want to compare the difference between the 2019 and 2020 engine.

We don't have the specs for the 2020 Outback engine yet, so I'll simply care the engine that we DO have in the Ascent with the current Outback 3.6R.

Outback and Legacy 3.6R is 256 hp at 6,000 RPM, 247 lb ft of torque at 4,400 RPM.
Ascent FA24 is 260 hp @ 5,600 RPM, 277 lb ft of torque at 2,000 - 4,800 RPM.

Outback 3.6 Limited is 3,865 lbs, with a GVWR of 4,850 lbs.
Ascent Limited weight varies, but the max is a 7 passenger with moonroof at 4,608 lbs and a GVWR of 6,000 lbs.
Touring weights for both models are within a few pounds - the Touring Outback is 40 lbs heavier, the Touring Ascent is 5 lbs lighter.

For comparison, the WRX engine is 268 hp with 258 lb ft of torque from 2,000 - 5,200 RPM.
The STI engine is 310 hp @ 6,000 RPM, 290 lb ft of torque from 4,000 - 5,800 RPM.

The Ascent engine is based upon the 2018 Turbo Forester engine, which was based upon the WRX engine. The differences are in the way the engines are tuned. The WRX requires Premium (91 - 93 octane) gas. The Forester had Premium recommended, but would run on Regular (87 Octane) at a reduced performance. The Ascent requires Regular, same as the 3.6R.

Obviously I've driven both vehicles many times. I expect them to adjust the FA24 to take into consideration the lighter vehicle weight, because if you dropped an Ascent engine and transmission directly into an Outback right now, the thing would be a low-flying airplane. I also expect it to get slightly better mileage, again due to the weight difference.

What I'll be curious about is if the body redesign to the SGP will increase the towing capacity at all. It did NOT change the Forester rated capacity. We obviously know now that the FA24 is enough engine for reasonable towing, and the Ascent is rated for it as well.

 

you have to go down and test drive both:

the 3.6 in the present day outbacks and legacy

and the 2.4 turbo in the Ascent.

and then decide if you want to snap up one of the last 3.6 available. or slightly used,...2017-19 should be about the same.

check on cars101.com for the changes from year to year.

 

H6 is tried and true. Very reliable and easy to work on. One of the most harmonically balanced motors, making it extremely smooth with power delivery and quietness.

New flat 4-turbo - more efficient, slightly more power, but has not been time-tested for reliability. Also more to go wrong since you have a turbo.

That being said, I'm happy I have the 3.6r H6.

 

I felt like OB with 3.6r also has a better ride than 2.5. More weight to the front and to the back.

 

So what happens down the road? How long will Subaru have parts available for the 3.6? For instance Most manufacturers produce for 7 years after model changes/dis continued.

 

You won't have to worry about parts for a long time or if ever. If the H6 is discontinued like any other engine Subaru has changed or discontinued you will be able to get parts. Shouldn’t be a concern.

 

And what's wrong with a low flying airplane...IMO Subaru should offer a little more HP and Torque

 

^ +1


LOL, "From Subaru?", good grief. Guy loves to hate on the H6. We get it, it's not high performance, whatever.

 

Most likely, here will be the correct ranking in 2020:

#1 = 2.4 turbo
#2 = 2.5
#3 = 3.6

Compared to the 3.6, the 2.4 turbo will not be affected by high altitude, and will have better mpg, longer range, and oil filter on top. These are things that will not occur to you when you are on a test drive, but they will certainly be noticable during ownership. In order to prefer the 3.6, you basically have to buy into the “tried-and-true, smooth running” propaganda. My senses are just not that refined to feel any smoothness difference that the 3.6 allegedly provides. So, that concept is irrelevant to me. Regarding longevity, my main ride will have no more than 100k miles. So, I won’t be overly concerned about longevity of any engine. Anyway, with proper maintenance, most cars that are not a lemon can easily reach 200k miles without major repairs.

 

Engine specs for 2029 OB are among my lesser concerns. Where I'm looking is at the CVT in the Ascent and how SOA massaged, tweaked or designed a CVT that will tow 5k lbs. No other drivetrain comes close.

The engine can come from Jesus but unless the tranny is righteous, this will be something to watch. The pump pressure could be high, loads of extra cooling, different pulley and chain metals, eye of a newt and a cup of mare's sweat all might be in there.

Do they put the Ascent tranny in the new OB, detune the engine or change the power curve? Dunno.

 

Subaru doesn't have a brilliant track record with new engines, especially with turbos. It'll take some time before the 2.4T proves itself to be reliable or not. The 3.6 has proven itself to be one of the most reliable engines Subaru ever made.

I bought the first year of the XT. Lesson learned, never again.

 

I agree, the 05-06 OBXT's had some issues that resolved in 07.

 

I am really curious how the turbo is integrated with the new Ascent engine.
What is the amount of boost it provides? How long before modding is done, or reprimanded?
Is the engine reworked to handle the increased power, ie: 'stronger' head gasket etc.?

I wonder what the relation this new Ascent engine has with the the Outback's 4 c or 6 cyl?
Anyone have any knowledge on that?

 

I'd hold off for a year or two with a new engine. I had a 14 FXT and it was fun to drive, but it had some quirks and issues that Subaru had solved by the time 16s came out. Lots of folks have some pretty good miles on the 14 FXT and 25 wrx by now and the engines seem to be pretty reliable.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk

 

Plus one on the hold off with a new engine... look at the 2013/2014 2.5 FB debacle. (E.g. burning ridiculous amounts of oil and the sketchy dealer system [some dealers take care if their customers, some went out of their way to avoid doing thhe warranty work...])

That being said, my biggest concern is the lack of decent gas mileage coming out of the turbo four-cylinder in the asent.

I understand that the outback weighs nearly 1000 pounds less, but I am pretty concerned about the gas mileage issue.

Right now with my 2017 outback, 3.6R, i’m getting about 24 miles to the gallon. The constant velocity transmission made a significant difference in gas mileage compared to my 2013 outback 3.6R. Granted I think my conventional automatic transmission was more responsive...

If we had the four-cylinder turbo with electric motor and a hybrid.... well, THAT would be something.

 

That being said, my biggest concern is the lack of decent gas mileage coming out of the turbo four-cylinder in the asent.

What SUV, in the size of the Ascent, has better gas mileage? That is a sincere question, not an attack.

 

The big negative on anh turbo vs n/a engine is the tolerance for abuse in the form of uneducated operators. N/A engines tolerate a fair bit of fluids ignorance and warning light ignorance. Turbo engines are very much the opposite in that regard. Smarter engine management systems that are better at protecting against operational ignorance is getting better but you will always see more major engine failure in turbo engines due to operator errors.

The turbo systems may also be more prone to cold temp issues where N/A engines are not etc.

Its a toss up each has its pluses and minuses. The 3.6 is old as dirt regarding engine tech and very tolerant of operator abuse.

 

I thought about this question quite a bit. In the end I bought now to get the 6 instead of waiting for the turbo 4 in an outback. I was going for proven reliability, and that's what I've purchased. I'm not saying that the turbo 4 ISN'T reliable, but I was anticipating a car purchase before I felt enough time had passed to be sure.

I'm extremely happy with my car so far.

 

I think there is a lot of potential for an H4-T in the new OB however, I'm more interested in the CVT used in the Ascent. The engine technology is rather settled in terms of how it works with a turbo and that's not a worry. Not at all.



It's the CVT relative to the new low RPM torque and 5k towing capacity that really has my giblets in the gravy. The engine platform is proven. It's the CVT with this engine that has zero track record that is the weak link in the powertrain. At least based on how a good number of us are having CVT issues at much lower torque and RPM values.

 

I think I have this knowledge from a regular car reviews video so don't quote me:

But I think the CVT or the Engine can detect when it's towing and adjusts itself accordingly.

 

Whatever they do with the 2020, I hope they get it right and offer nice options. I like the current OB size and wagon profile. I still want decent power, got to have 275hp min (option) to compete and provide decent driving experience. I'm old school and may think I prefer a six but I haven't driven enough turbo fours. I understand they can be decent. Mileage isn't a big priority with me although I appreciate good mpg. Range does matter to a degree, maybe make the gas tank a bit bigger. In my ford f150 with a v8 and a 36 gal tank I can drive forever it seems.

 

Tire diameter, regardless of wheel size, would normally/typically be the same to avoid calibration issues for speedo/odo. Just the tire aspect ratio would be different. Where the mpg difference may lie is with tire/wheel weight...the 20s would have more metal and more weight affects fuel economy.

 

Generally I would agree but it depends on the distribution of weight for centrifugal forces. A vehicle I used to race came with two variations of wheels in the same size, one was noticeably heavier as static weight. However, when rotating they weigh less than the other wheel at the same speed because the weight was more centered at the hub and not the outside of the wheel. The more weight a wheel has towards the outside of the rim then the forces exponentially increase compared to adding the same weight towards the center of the wheel.

If you're shopping on tire rack there are also a lot of aftermarket wheels that are light and cheap, but a lot of the more prominent brands (OZ, Enkei, BBS) don't appear to have the lowest weights and I see a lot of people ignore them based on price because they don't see the value in spending more for something with a higher static weight. But a lot of those manufacturers do this purposely to help balance the wheel's rotational forces. Obviously you can then account for mpg increases, handling and braking efficiency, etc. The same variables can be accounted for comparing wheel diameter differences.

 

Carl,


You have the best WAGs on the web.

 

How is it that more than one Subaru dealer gets "dealer of the year?" Tucson Subaru received the same award in 2015-2018 that Carl's dealership did? Is it by region?

 

Well, if you notice, my signature pictures say Oklahoma on them. Theirs says United States.

 

Weight and tire size. Ascent premium models have better 0-60 times and skid pad numbers.

 

I bought my first Subaru in the summer of 2014. There are two Subaru dealers in northwest South Carolina. Supply was very low and demand was high. Buying an Outback meant putting up a deposit on a car before it was delivered to the lot. One to the dealers required a non-refundable deposit for cars in transit. Window shopping and test driving was not an easy option. I ended up buying a used 2013 Outback.


Now demand still appears to be high (inventory turns over quickly) but the dealers appear to have plenty of inventory. I assume the factory production levels were running much lower than today.

 

Another 3.6 hate thread, YAYAYA... :bla:

 

Nah, I don't see any engine bashing going on here. There was maybe some initial potential when a currently banned member (predictably) jumped on the OP's question. Nothing to it since his counterquestion was nonsensical. Eager for an argument is probably an understatement.

 

Get the last 3.6R Outback 2019 or wait for 2.4T Outback 2020

I was at the final step of purchasing the 2019 OB 3.6R touring last week and overheard two salesmen talking about newly designed OV 2020 with new 2.4L turbocharged engine coming in summer 2019. I held off purchasing the 3.6R 2019 OB but I am reading mixed reviews everywhere. Some are saying get the 3.6R six cylinder before it’s gone. Others saying 3.6R six cylinder will be a thing of past and turbocharged engines are the future. As a new buyer and with little knowledge in engines, I am very confused whether to buy 2019 OB or wait for few months for 2020 OB. I will appreciate any feedback on this. Thanks!

 

I was at the final step of purchasing the 2019 OB 3.6R touring last week and overheard two salesmen talking about newly designed OV 2020 with new 2.4L turbocharged engine coming in summer 2019. I held off purchasing the 3.6R 2019 OB but I am reading mixed reviews everywhere. Some are saying get the 3.6R six cylinder before it’s gone. Others saying 3.6R six cylinder will be a thing of past and turbocharged engines are the future. As a new buyer and with little knowledge in engines, I am very confused whether to buy 2019 OB or wait for few months for 2020 OB. I will appreciate any feedback on this. Thanks!

merged with existing thread,...so you can read all about it.

and more in the Future Gen6 forum where this thread is. (and in the Ascent section on the 2.4T)

but:

Try the 2.4 turbo in the Ascent. and then try the last 3.6 in the existing outback. do this back to back and then decide.