[freedom15]

I might be misunderstanding the description of what is happening that's quoted below, but it seems to me it's operating properly.


Sounds normal. When the engine is running, the parking brake is Off, and the transmission (CVT) is not in Park, the DRLs will be on. The DRLs are (normally) the high beams but at reduced brightness.

The use of LED high beam bulbs could mean that the bulbs appear to be the same brightness when in DRL mode or in regular High beam mode because the small reduction in current for DRLs that would slightly dim incandescent bulbs, might not have any significant effect on the LED high beam bulbs.


That seems to be the way they're intended to work. In AUTO, when in bright surroundings, the AUTO control is essentially as if the switch is in the Off position, which brings it to the DRLs as mentioned above. When outside brightness goes down (heavy cloud, evening, night, under a bridge, in a tunnel etc), the AUTO control turns the headlights On. When the headlights are turned on, the DRLs are turned off, so the high beam bulbs go off.

From Chapter 3 ("Instruments and controls") of your 2015 Owners Manual:
View attachment 571263

View attachment 571264

Hi - when I say high beams - I mean the bright lights - not the normal night time driving lights. These brights come on when the car is in drive and the light switch is in the off position and also when it is in the auto position. I have to move the switch to normal nighttime headlights to actually get those lights to work. Hope that clarifies.

Yeah, if you put LEDs in the high beams, you're potentially driving around with your high beams on all day long. Not a good look, IMO, and inconsiderate to other drivers, particularly under lower-light conditions (before the low beams are activated assuming you use the auto function). I see more and more Subarus running this setup and find it extremely irritating.

Anyway, are you saying you replaced the headlight switch on the stalk? Did you do any diagnostics before that? Like simply reinstalling the original incandescent bulbs? Aftermarket LED units vary widely in build quality and just because they still light up doesn't mean they're functioning properly. Some are also known to cause a variety of strange electrical issues due to interference created by the driver circuitry.

No - I'm going to do that now, with the original bulbs. I hadn't heard of that and since the LED's worked for so long i didn't know that could be it. My clock spring went out so I did the headlight switch on the stalk at the same time since several Subbie guys said that was the likely problem. The relays have also been mentioned as a potential cause of messing with the voltage, but not sure which one I would look to change out? Thanks!

 

[plain OM]

when I say high beams - I mean the bright lights - not the normal night time driving lights. These brights come on when the car is in drive and the light switch is in the off position and also when it is in the auto position. I have to move the switch to normal nighttime headlights to actually get those lights to work. Hope that clarifies.

Not really.

The high beams are the headlight bulbs that are most inboard in the headlight housing. The low beams are the bulbs that are further out from the center of the car.

The high beam bulbs are used:

1) as high beams headlights when headlights are selected by the headlight switch and the dimmer switch is set to High beams;​

​

2) as the Daytime Running Lights, when the engine is running, the parking brake is Off, and the transmission (CVT) is not in Park. When used as the DRLs, the high beam bulbs are normally not as bright as when used as high beam headlights.​

This high beam arrangement was noted in post #8 above, and is described in the Owners Manual.

Below is a diagram of the headlight assembly, with the low beam and high beam headlights noted.

Are you saying that your lights are not operating this way?

 

[freedom15]

No, they are not operating that way. The High beams headlights (what I was calling the "brights" above - that's what we called them where I grew up), are turning on at full brightness when the shifter is out of park and the headlight switch is in the off position or the auto position. This includes the DRL- only full brightness high beams. The only way I can get my Low beam lights to turn on when driving is by turning the headlight switch all the way up to the normal on position for low beams. The Auto position on the headlight switch only turns on the high beams. However, if the car shifter is in Park, all light positions on the headlight switch work properly. I replaced all my lights with LED's in the interior, exterior and all headlights about 2-3 yrs ago without any problems. This light problem has been going on for many months. (Also, last month I had to have the clock spring replaced due to the horn not working, which works now. I also replaced the headlight switch stick but that didn't help. In case there is a connection.)

 

[freedom15]

I'll stand with my diag. What bulbs exactly were in there before you changed them? Perhaps they were DRL compatible, but those are rare and expensive. If you don't care about the DRLs, you can use these relays to disable the function and your brights will work normally. See the thread I linked.

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Thanks - I do think DRL are a safety help but if I was to do this how would I go about it? Is it just this one and pull which? Thanks!

 

[walker]

Thanks - I do think DRL are a safety help but if I was to do this how would I go about it? Is it just this one and pull which? Thanks!

you'll need two.... the current relays are 5 pin, the replacements are 4 pin. swap them out.

 

[plain OM]

The only way I can get my Low beam lights to turn on when driving is by turning the headlight switch all the way up to the normal on position for low beams. The Auto position on the headlight switch only turns on the high beams

Thanks. A different perspective.

So, with the headlight switch in the AUTO position, the only headlight bulbs that are ever on are the high beams at the front. Unlike what it's supposed to do, the AUTO position does not change the headlight bulb operation as it should when when moving between a fully lit environment, e.g., outside daytime when only the DRLs are on, and a dark situation, e.g., at night, with no street lights or other lighting, when the Low beams should be on.

A couple of things to verify: When the headlight switch is in the Off position, and the car is being driven, the DRLs (high beam bulbs) should be on, but I believe none of the external tail, clearance or license plate lights should be on. However, when the headlight switch is in the AUTO position and in a dark environment, the external tail, clearance and license plate lights should be On along with the Low beam headlight bulbs.

If, when in a dark surroundings and using the AUTO position, the tail, clearance and license plate lights do not come on, that, along with the high beam bulbs remaining on, would suggest it's not a headlght issue as such; rather the AUTO function is not working and when in the AUTO setting it's as if the headlight switch is in the Off position, and only the DRLs are functioning.

The all-important ambient light sensor is located on the top of the dashboard, near the windshield (page 3-44 of the Owners Manual). It could be damaged, perhaps from cleaning material used on the dash or work done under the dash. If the sensor is disconnected, or faulty in such a way as to be the same as a disconnection, it might appear to the AUTO function control circuit as if it's bright outside. That would result in the high beam bulbs, running as DRLs, remaining on all the time.

Also, the sensitivity setting for the light sensor can be adjusted. Perhaps check to see what the setting is now. (See page 3-41).

 

[freedom15]

Thanks. A different perspective.

So, with the headlight switch in the AUTO position, the only headlight bulbs that are ever on are the high beams at the front. Unlike what it's supposed to do, the AUTO position does not change the headlight bulb operation as it should when when moving between a fully lit environment, e.g., outside daytime when only the DRLs are on, and a dark situation, e.g., at night, with no street lights or other lighting, when the Low beams should be on.

A couple of things to verify: When the headlight switch is in the Off position, and the car is being driven, the DRLs (high beam bulbs) should be on, but I believe none of the external tail, clearance or license plate lights should be on. However, when the headlight switch is in the AUTO position and in a dark environment, the external tail, clearance and license plate lights should be On along with the Low beam headlight bulbs.

If, when in a dark surroundings and using the AUTO position, the tail, clearance and license plate lights do not come on, that, along with the high beam bulbs remaining on, would suggest it's not a headlight issue as such; rather the AUTO function is not working and when in the AUTO setting it's as if the headlight switch is in the Off position, and only the DRLs are functioning.

The all-important ambient light sensor is located on the top of the dashboard, near the windshield (page 3-44 of the Owners Manual). It could be damaged, perhaps from cleaning material used on the dash or work done under the dash. If the sensor is disconnected, or faulty in such a way as to be the same as a disconnection, it might appear to the AUTO function control circuit as if it's bright outside. That would result in the high beam bulbs, running as DRLs, remaining on all the time.

Also, the sensitivity setting for the light sensor can be adjusted. Perhaps check to see what the setting is now. (See page 3-41).

Thank you for all the info you put into this post. I did check all these things and they are all working now normally. I changed the LED bulbs last night back to OEM bulbs based on post above and everything started working properly. The DRL's are now working at the proper brightness on off and auto positions - no more full high beam brightness. I didn't know that was a thing with LED bulbs and didn't think it could be the cause due to the LED bulbs I had working properly for over 2 yrs. In researching the issue of LED bulbs I see that it is hit and miss. Some people's work, some don't dim the high beam bulbs to the proper DRL intensity. Thanks again though for all the input. I'm saving the post for any future light diagnosis.

 

[freedom15]

PROBLEM SOLVED:

It's because you put LEDs in the high beam sockets. Without modification, they will either flicker or run full bright instead of the reduced output of the halogen highs used as DRLs. When Auto flips on the low beams, they shut off.

Good thread

Well you nailed it. It's the LED bulbs. I changed the LED bulbs last night back to OEM bulbs and everything started working properly. The DRL's are now working at the proper brightness in on, off, and auto positions - no more full high beam brightness. I didn't know that was a thing with LED bulbs and didn't think it could be the cause due to the LED bulbs I had working properly for over 2 yrs. In researching the issue of LED bulbs I see that it is hit and miss. Some people's work, some don't dim the high beam bulbs to the proper DRL intensity. I do remember now hearing about the flickering problem but thought I was lucky that none of our cars did that. We changed 3 cars to LED. Never heard about the full brightness issue. I'm still thinking about the relay switch out. Thanks for stopping the madness! Lol.

 

[freedom15]

It was the LED bulbs causing the issue - replaced them with OEM bulbs and all started working normally.

 

[freedom15]

LEDs need to be fed a specific voltage to function properly so, at least in this case, they're not directly driven by the car's electrical system. There's a driver circuit that converts the ~12V from the vehicle to whatever the LEDs require and that circuit can easily be designed to provide multiple output levels (this is very common in LED flashlights for example). I guess the prohibiting factor is cost and that's why units with DRL functionality appear to be pretty rare.


WelI, I'd imagine, in order to be properly focused by the reflector, not only do the LEDs have to be positioned precisely at the focal point, but all of their output needs to be concentrated in a very small area (basically the size of the filament they're replacing). If one or both of these conditions aren't met, then you might still get a larger "flood" of light (because these high-power LEDs typically put out a lot more light than a halogen filament), but you won't be sending that light out as far.

I haven't bothered to put LEDs in my high beams but I've seen complaints about this from other members which is why I mentioned it. I'd expect the LED units these days, at least the higher quality ones, are properly designed to match the bulbs so maybe it's not as common a problem. Just something to be aware of.

Yep - it was the LED bulbs. Thanks!

 

[freedom15]

It's because you put LEDs in the high beam sockets. Without modification, they will either flicker or run full bright instead of the reduced output of the halogen highs used as DRLs. When Auto flips on the low beams, they shut off.

Good thread

It's because you put LEDs in the high beam sockets. Without modification, they will either flicker or run full bright instead of the reduced output of the halogen highs used as DRLs. When Auto flips on the low beams, they shut off.

Good thread

Solved: You nailed it. It was the LED bulbs. I didn't think of the bulbs due to having them work for over 2 yrs but I switched them out to the EOM and all worked again. I had heard of the flickering problem and thought I was lucky that we didn't get that - (we converted 3 cars) but had never heard of the "full bright" problem. Also a few people told me it was the headlight switch or relay - so wasn't looking at the bulbs themselves. I'll have to decide about losing the DRL's for the other relays but for now I can just drive without flipping my switch on and off at all stops. Thanks!!!

 

[freedom15]

I might be misunderstanding the description of what is happening that's quoted below, but it seems to me it's operating properly.


Sounds normal. When the engine is running, the parking brake is Off, and the transmission (CVT) is not in Park, the DRLs will be on. The DRLs are (normally) the high beams but at reduced brightness.

The use of LED high beam bulbs could mean that the bulbs appear to be the same brightness when in DRL mode or in regular High beam mode because the small reduction in current for DRLs that would slightly dim incandescent bulbs, might not have any significant effect on the LED high beam bulbs.


That seems to be the way they're intended to work. In AUTO, when in bright surroundings, the AUTO control is essentially as if the switch is in the Off position, which brings it to the DRLs as mentioned above. When outside brightness goes down (heavy cloud, evening, night, under a bridge, in a tunnel etc), the AUTO control turns the headlights On. When the headlights are turned on, the DRLs are turned off, so the high beam bulbs go off.

From Chapter 3 ("Instruments and controls") of your 2015 Owners Manual:
View attachment 571263

View attachment 571264

Thank you for your full response. It did turn out to be the LED bulbs. Apparently they can flicker OR cause a full bright effect. For some reason mine started doing that after a few yrs. I put the OEM bulbs back in and all is fine. Thanks again.

 

[freedom15]

Yeah, if you put LEDs in the high beams, you're potentially driving around with your high beams on all day long. Not a good look, IMO, and inconsiderate to other drivers, particularly under lower-light conditions (before the low beams are activated assuming you use the auto function). I see more and more Subarus running this setup and find it extremely irritating.

Anyway, are you saying you replaced the headlight switch on the stalk? Did you do any diagnostics before that? Like simply reinstalling the original incandescent bulbs? Aftermarket LED units vary widely in build quality and just because they still light up doesn't mean they're functioning properly. Some are also known to cause a variety of strange electrical issues due to interference created by the driver circuitry.

Solved: It was the LED bulbs. I didn't think of the bulbs due to having them work for over 2 yrs but I switched them out to the EOM and all worked again. I had heard of the flickering problem and thought I was lucky that we didn't get that - (we converted 3 cars) but had never heard of the "full bright" problem. Also a few people told me it was the headlight switch or relay - so wasn't looking at the bulbs themselves. I'll have to decide about losing the DRL's for the other relays but for now I can just drive without flipping my switch on and off at all stops. Thanks!!!