Not sure how exactly you did your brakes, but wanted to mention that Subarus are notoriously picky when it comes to replacement parts. Brakes seem to be one of them. Don't go with cheap pads or anything else, or you'll be replacing them again (and again). I think using OEM parts would be wise in this case. That might do it.

Perhaps that helps:

 

Don't forget about your flexible brake hoses. You don't need OEM calipers, pads, or rotors, but the caliper pins should move easily and the pads should move freely.

You can tell if the hose (or something else) is holding pressure by loosening the bleeder screw on the caliper. Fluid should not spurt out. If it does, something before the caliper is amiss. If not, something at the wheelend is.

James

 

You can tell if the hose (or something else) is holding pressure by loosening the bleeder screw on the caliper. Fluid should not spurt out. If it does, something before the caliper is amiss. If not, something at the wheelend is.

Did you try this? You have got to verify if there is actually residual pressure in the system or if there is a mechanical problem at the wheelend. If there is residual pressure, you can work your way back to the source by cracking fittings. Fluid in a system at rest will slowly seep out of a loose fitting. it should not 'pop' out as if under pressure.

James

 

+1 on the flex lines. Sometimes they collapse inside, so they will act more like a check valve, letting fluid into the caliper, but then not letting it back out.

 

This may be hard to determine but does the brake light come on when this happens? Could a faulty traction control send a signal to brake this one wheel?

Just asking.

 

No lights come on whatsoever. Both front calipers locked tight.

 

New calipers will get you new pistons that are unseized in their bores. But if you install these new calipers on your old slide pins which are still seized into your old support bracket, you will still have a seized caliper. Ask me how I know

 

a 'flapper' inside a hydraulic hose can hold/limit pressure release but I think the odds of it happening on both sides approaches infinity.

Some folks have had to grind off a little of the 'ears' on pad backing plates to prevent dragging after a little rust develops.

In addition to good suggestion from others, perhaps, due to a wreck or??? some work has been done on the front of the car and one of the following has occurred; wrong size/model brake caliper BRACKETS were installed, wrong rotors were installed, aftermarket rims are rubbing on the calipers(unlikely I'm sure)


just some wild guesses.

 

Some folks have had to grind off a little of the 'ears' on pad backing plates to prevent dragging after a little rust develops.

I've had to do a bit of grinding just to get them in... and that's after cleaning all the mounting surfaces and the clips/shims.

Good pads, cheap pads, almost always have to grind.


Dave

 

+1 on Flex hoses

 

Installed new slide pins, too.

 

what is your location?

 

I am the 2nd owner. I have had the vehicle 2 1/2 yrs and no problems. Now, both front calipers seized. Rotors look great and pads look great.

 

Located in Parkersburg WV

 

no hill-holder on this car? Is that just some Foresters?

maybe someone had the calipers off and put them back on with a 'twist' in the hoses?

Did the mechanic or anyone mention whether the inside pad was worn MUCH more than the outer one? Of if both pads had about the same wear? That might help locate the problem to caliper slide pins/mechanical or hoses/master cyl.

 

Hm...if both calipers truly siezed...multiple times....it is possible someone put something other than brake fluid into the reservoir at some point. I have heard stories of people pouring engine oil, and all kinds of other fluids in there, either accidentally or just not knowing, and that can eat up various seals and rubber in the brake system....

 

The person doing this work used to work at a Ford garage, he is currently an engineer at a power plant. I know what he did and that he put the proper DOT recommended brake fluid that I purchased with the calipers as I watched everything. He was very meticulous as to not get debris in or on anything.

 

Before jumping in to replacing list of parts based on guesses, have you actually established that infact the calipers are seized? generally speaking, if (rare for car that is driven on regular basis) and when piston inside the caliper siezes, it will not apply pressure to the pads when brake pedal is depressed. and it's highly unlikely that new caliper would drag like you describe. as far as the brake lines go, if there was blockage enough for it to apply pressure to the pads, it would not allow the fluids to pass to the caliper at the first place, but should it do that, you would be able to tell by swelling of the area before the blockage. I would first make sure the caliper is cause of the problem. you can check that by putting your car on the jackstands (all 4 wheels since it's awd) and rotate tire by hand and see if there is significant drag on that particular wheel. the brake pads are designed to skim across the rotors without pedals depressed so slight drag and noise is normal. however wheels should still spin freely. after you check that and compare wheel to wheel for variations you can pinpoint the origin of problem. I will help from this end as much as I can, also do you have traction control/abs on your car?

 

I took the car to my regular tire shop and they told me all 4 wheels are seized and that I have a hydraulic problem that they do not work on. They said there is a smell to the seizing. I have dealt with them for 10 years. Apparently when I 1st took the car there it was just the front seized, or that is only what they looked at, dunno. But, I had new front calipers, new master cylinder (bench bled) and new hoses and bled system in sequence. I was told it was fixed and I still felt violent shaking of steering wheel, so I took it back to the tire shop, thinking it might be a busted belt, tie rod end, or rotors. They also said it was not the rotors.

 

What are you calling slide pins? There is no reason for new ones to seize up unless the polts and sliders are not cleaned and lubed.

They must be lubed.

 

Yes, lubed with the special type for this.

 

I just had the brake hoses replaced. Same thing, now all 4 wheels are locked up. I found a technical service bulletin at NHTSA dated 12/8/04 bulletin # 10002989 summary: replacement of the electronic control unit for the ABS system repair. Where can I get one other than the costly dealership?

 

that is very odd, I've never heard of such problem, I could see somehow abs unit may faulty modulate and cause pedal vibration and noise, but I don't believe abs unit is able to apply and HOLD pressure at all 4 wheels. if I'm not mistaken it has failsafe system where should abs unit failure occurs it allows fluid to bypass for non-abs function. I would def get second opinion and perhaps resort to subaru specific service centers.

 

wow, crazy. buy used parts. this stuff fails so rarely that new would be silly, i mean you're not going to even find another subaru owner with these symptoms or ever see it again so new is over priced.

car-parts.com is a junkyard database. if you can't find exactly what you're looking for (like an obscure part not listed or something) - look up something close - like ABS module...and if they have that, then they may have the controller, wiring etc.

disconnect the ABS electrical connectors or pull the ABS fuse or pull the ABS controller plug - or all of the above!

1. if the problem goes away then it's electrical in nature and the controller or relay likely needs replaced.

2. if the problem doesn't go away then the abs unit itself is probably mecahnically hosed inside.

two things i'm not sure about is if the master cylinder or proportioning valve could fail in such a way as to apply constant hydraulic pressure to the brakes?

i would suspect either the ABS module is mechanically hosed - replace it. it's fairly easy actually and not that big of a deal. unscrew fittings, install new unit, reinstall fittings. not that bad and while the "bleeding procedure" looks convoluted i've never really had to do anything but normal bleeding like any other brake component replacement, so not much to worry about.

did you try a google search - seems like all 4 locked wheels would be a symptom one other person has had before.

 

All four seized? I am guessing a master cylinder issue, a mis adjusted brake rod on the pedal. Some people like to adjust them which really sint suggested.

The ABS is passive untill it has to do something, so things just flow through it.

Not working on hydraulics? Thats a copout as brakes are not that complicated. Another possability can be collapsed brake lines.

 

All four seized? I am guessing a master cylinder issue, a mis adjusted brake rod on the pedal.

Happens on motorcycles all the time- someone puts on hand guards that just touch the lever, keeps the fluid from flowing back.

Brakes heat a tint bit, fluid expands, brakes drag.

 

Another thing to check is the lower slide pins on the calipers. Some of them have a rubber sleeve on the pin that loosens up and binds the pin in the bore. The sleeve is there to keep the pins from making a klunk as the brakes are applied. They can be replaced (the come in the pin boot kit). In a pinch they can be removed without affecting the opperation of the brakes.

 

This sounds very like a hill-holder problem - on manual Subaru Legacies there is a valve on the driver`s side rear of the engine bay with a ball and ramp system for trapping hydraulic pressure when brakes are applied with the car pointing uphill. The pressure is released by a cable connected to the clutch operating lever on the bell-housing (top center - you can see it).

If the cable is out of adjustment the valve will fail to release and the brakes will stay on due to hydraulic pressure trapped in the system. I don`t konw whether your Outback will have this device - if it has, it`s a simple matter to disconnect - just disengage the spring on the valve and tie the valve`s lever back to stop it moving forward (when it will allow the ball inside to move and block the pressure in the lines form being relieved).

There is a link and description in the UK`s "Honest John" website under Subaru Legacy which describes how it works.

It seems extremely unlikely that any of the solutions suggested by other contributors to your pages will affect AL FOUR brakes at the same time. But the hill-holder WILL if it`s badly out of adjustment. And, of course, assuming your car has one.

The device is a complete pain, luckily it`s ver easy to disconnect, and you do not have to interfere with the brakes or hydraulics in any way whatever.

I did this to my wife`s 1999 Legacy a couple of years ago and she`s had no more trouble at all. I do agree that Subaru`s have a tendency to bind on slightly discs leading to overheating of the rotors, but this is nothing like what you are describing - it`s just the piston seals seem to harden after 6-7 years and no longer withdraw the pistons lightly from the pads as they are supposed to do. But I cannot see how this could happen with new callipers. (Accepting that Subaru brakes are pretty bad - at least by European standards)

AS

 

I don't think american built subarus offered this till very late my 2001 had nothing of the sort and 99.9999% sure that a 2002 does not have this.

Most common issue is low quality caliper parts and frozen up slide pins are the issue here.

 

Also the hill holder only works on one break circuit not two.

What barnd were these parts, as I am going with low quailty like above.

 

Well you never know

This link is from a fellow with a 2005 Forester.

http://www.lackhead.org/2008/09/disabling-my-subarus-hill-holder-clutch/

It`s a much better description how to eliminate the device than I w\as able to offer

AS

 

I think someone needs to re-examine the booster. It 'could' make a whooshing noise (at least, I'm imagining it could lol!) and maybe cause the problems you're having.

IF the calipers are locked up after turning the car off, pull the vacuum line to the booster and see if the pressure at the calipers is released/diminished.

 

so?

wha hap'ned ?

 

bump for update?